Involuntarily volunteered experiment

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Izso

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Izso

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Mar 28, 2004
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I'll do it more scientifically the next time I'm forced fed something else.

Like this intervener's "Air charger". I'm very curious to know how it works and if it was so great, why haven't car manufacturers introduced it as OEM since nowadays emissions is a big deal, petrol prices are going up and everyone goes all out for power without sacrificing FC.

If he/she is willing to donate one contraption for my unscientific dissecting I'll promise to review it as unbiased as possible.


Titan : Drex's handiwork is really top notch eh? Even the crappy stuff he makes it look good..... LOL

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------

Oh btw, my car choked initially at cold startup because Siemens VDO cars start off rich when cold starting. Apparently this is normal so since not enough air due to the gadget, it was asthmatic.
 

skazareth

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skazareth

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i love the Mythbuster thingy, busting all those crap products. ZTH must set up a team for that.
Izso..u'll be Jamie Hyneman.
 

alpina

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alpina

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I took the air charger and bolted to my exhaust to make a turbocharger, it gave me 100Hp :withstupid:, I even overtook a Ferrari in a traffic jam :driver:
Tomorrow i am going to buy another to make Twin turbo, maybe can overtake Bugatti next time...:stupid:
 

Izso

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Izso

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i love the Mythbuster thingy, busting all those crap products. ZTH must set up a team for that.
Izso..u'll be Jamie Hyneman.
Actually that's a pretty good idea. I wonder if Tom will approve it. Let me cross it with him and see
 

keegs

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keegs

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why haven't car manufacturers introduced it as OEM since nowadays emissions is a big deal, petrol prices are going up and everyone goes all out for power without sacrificing FC.
Hi guys, IMO car manufacturers dont supply aftermarket products. hence the word "aftermarket". if this is the case, then why dont "most" car manufacturers equip cars (for example) with chassis strengthening bar as standard rather then as an option? or any aftermarkt products that works for that matter.

its all a question of cost reduction.

im no believer in this kind of devices, but i am using 1 (Air Charger) and hav yet to find any disadvantages be it in FC, HP or NM. tho im not singing praises to whether it works.
 

D7zul

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D7zul

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Like we all know..

for power, u need :

- more air
- more fuel
- more spark..

those thing just 'choke' the air coming into the engine.. thus, loosing power & fuel too..

the Ram-Air Revelations posted by Izso is better :biggrin:
 

Izso

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Izso

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Hi guys, IMO car manufacturers dont supply aftermarket products. hence the word "aftermarket". if this is the case, then why dont "most" car manufacturers equip cars (for example) with chassis strengthening bar as standard rather then as an option? or any aftermarkt products that works for that matter.

its all a question of cost reduction.

im no believer in this kind of devices, but i am using 1 (Air Charger) and hav yet to find any disadvantages be it in FC, HP or NM. tho im not singing praises to whether it works.
I humbly disagree. If manufacturers took up building these extra things into their cars it would no longer be aftermarket and be OEM instead! Higher spec cars such as Beemers, Golf GTI and all have battery conditioners built into their electronics. Sound familiar? Yes.. Voltage Stabilizers and battery life extenders. That's a technology they've decided to incorporate into their cars so it's not aftermarket for them, it's OEM.

Strengthening bars isn't exactly the best way to stiffen a chassis. If I were a car manufacturer and had mass production assembly lines, while building the chassis I'd have the robots weld a few extra spots for chassis strengthening, rather than bolting on some bars that add on to overall weight. Kinda like what Proton did with the C99 chassis and R3 with the Satria R3. Spot welded by the manufacturer.

So again the discussion comes back to why didn't the manufacturers pick up this technology?
 
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keegs

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keegs

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I humbly disagree. If manufacturers took up building these extra things into their cars it would no longer be aftermarket and be OEM instead! Higher spec cars such as Beemers, Golf GTI and all have battery conditioners built into their electronics. Sound familiar? Yes.. Voltage Stabilizers and battery life extenders. That's a technology they've decided to incorporate into their cars so it's not aftermarket for them, it's OEM.

Strengthening bars isn't exactly the best way to stiffen a chassis. If I were a car manufacturer and had mass production assembly lines, while building the chassis I'd have the robots weld a few extra spots for chassis strengthening, rather than bolting on some bars that add on to overall weight. Kinda like what Proton did with the C99 chassis and R3 with the Satria R3. Spot welded by the manufacturer.

So again the discussion comes back to why didn't the manufacturers pick up this technology?
Noted and i agree with your statement. That is why i have mentioned it's about the cost of production and whether car manufacturers are willing to invest in R&D for thousands if not millions in a technology that will only have little gain in performance needless to say better FC.

I appreciate your opinion.:top:
 

Izso

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Izso

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Noted and i agree with your statement. That is why i have mentioned it's about the cost of production and whether car manufacturers are willing to invest in R&D for thousands if not millions in a technology that will only have little gain in performance needless to say better FC.

I appreciate your opinion.:top:
I appreciate nice blokes like you who are always open for a healthy debate minus the heated element. :top:

I'd like to issue you a challenge though - take out that air charger and let your car re-adapt and see if you're able to notice any difference.
 

ijnek

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ijnek

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hey izso, ran any test on VS?

i changed my ride recently and initially had no VS...
after i installed back my VS, acceleration seems smoother and overall ride seems smoother...jus not as smooth as my ex-car with CVT....

mayb it's jus me ...a matter of gettin used to the new car
 

keegs

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keegs

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I appreciate nice blokes like you who are always open for a healthy debate minus the heated element. :top:

I'd like to issue you a challenge though - take out that air charger and let your car re-adapt and see if you're able to notice any difference.
Thanks.
I've done it before for a day and not to spew on any misconception of the 'device', but I noticed a drop in my low end RPM. Maybe I can test it out for a few days to see how my car performs without it or maybe it could be a placebo affect.

The purpose of me installing this 'device' is to try whether it will really improve my overall performance. So far, it did a bit, FC no change for the past 3 weeks.

But I do have a friend (Waja 1.6 SOHC) that installed an Air Charger secretly and managed to beat me (Waja CPS) in a 400M drag by 1 car length and the cherry on the cake, he has never beaten me before.:hmmmm: This was all before I ever installed an air charger. It was only after I installed mine than I could match my friends car.

Bare in mind that our car's engine setup at Before & After are the same and a total of 3 Laps were tested to get any doubts out of the way (before my clutch over-heats):tongue:

Anyway, my case would be a bit subjective unless I can find some proper way or scientific evidence to show any improvements.:biggrin:
 

Izso

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Izso

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hey izso, ran any test on VS?

i changed my ride recently and initially had no VS...
after i installed back my VS, acceleration seems smoother and overall ride seems smoother...jus not as smooth as my ex-car with CVT....

mayb it's jus me ...a matter of gettin used to the new car
I just got the green light from Tom to do this experiment idea :biggrin:

The thing about VS is it really depends on the platform. Different cars seem to have different responses. I'm suspecting the more the electronics, the more it is affected? I dunno. My Wira had a big response with the grounding kit but my Myvi had zero use for it. But the VS had big effect on Myvi. In fact my next test will be on VS right after my brake and coolant swap DIYs.

Thanks.
I've done it before for a day and not to spew on any misconception of the 'device', but I noticed a drop in my low end RPM. Maybe I can test it out for a few days to see how my car performs without it or maybe it could be a placebo affect.

The purpose of me installing this 'device' is to try whether it will really improve my overall performance. So far, it did a bit, FC no change for the past 3 weeks.

But I do have a friend (Waja 1.6 SOHC) that installed an Air Charger secretly and managed to beat me (Waja CPS) in a 400M drag by 1 car length and the cherry on the cake, he has never beaten me before.:hmmmm: This was all before I ever installed an air charger. It was only after I installed mine than I could match my friends car.

Bare in mind that our car's engine setup at Before & After are the same and a total of 3 Laps were tested to get any doubts out of the way (before my clutch over-heats):tongue:

Anyway, my case would be a bit subjective unless I can find some proper way or scientific evidence to show any improvements.:biggrin:
Interesting.. If you do take out the gadget dare I ask you to loan it to me for testing purposes?
 

keegs

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keegs

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I just got the green light from Tom to do this experiment idea :biggrin:

The thing about VS is it really depends on the platform. Different cars seem to have different responses. I'm suspecting the more the electronics, the more it is affected? I dunno. My Wira had a big response with the grounding kit but my Myvi had zero use for it. But the VS had big effect on Myvi. In fact my next test will be on VS right after my brake and coolant swap DIYs.



Interesting.. If you do take out the gadget dare I ask you to loan it to me for testing purposes?
I would loan you the gadget, but I will have to send it over to West M'sia as I'm living in Sarawak.:biggrin:
 

C99D-MMC5537

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C99D-MMC5537

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those people who believe this kind of product might think that it will swirl the air until it reach combustion chamber.. and maybe will create an extra turbulent to better mix-up with fuel before it'll be ignite. i have 1 simple n quite DANGEROUS experiment for this kind of people. dismantle all your air box and its pipe (for NA only, charged engine cannot). let the mouth of throttle body directly suck air. start your engine. put your hand on the TB mouth (don't cover full, maybe half only. or your hand will be sucked into TB :biggrin: ). then, u'll get the idea how strong the vacuum produced by your engine (and this is in idling). then your common sense will tell u either this kind of product will work or not. it maybe only capable to swirl the air for few cm after it in straight line (which engine got straight intake line from air box to cylinder head?? 4AGE 4throttle maybe..). hehehe.. :biggrin:
 

BetaProject

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BetaProject

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i tot the air charger theory is nothing more that a "1 way valve" installed between air cleaner and throttle body... so your are by passing the air cleaner box hence defeating the purpose of air cleaner...
 

keegs

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keegs

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i tot the air charger theory is nothing more that a "1 way valve" installed between air cleaner and throttle body... so your are by passing the air cleaner box hence defeating the purpose of air cleaner...
Yes, an air charger is a 1 way valve but the proper place to install the air charger is at the vacuum lead hose from intake manifold (where you usually connect your vacuum meter with a T-junction hose).

The reason being is that an air charger supplies extra external source of vacuum to your existing vacuum pressure rather than getting it all from your air filter.
Logically, it will supply you with the vacuum needed to your system when under full throttle (at idle, you won't see any difference). If you have a Vacuum Meter you can tell the difference as it can help in maintaining a stable vacuum pressure under load given that you adjust the air charger valve appropriately.

For example, I installed my air charger in between the intake manifold and the FPR. Resulting in better fuel pressure stability at high revs and full load. (It is for my testing purposes only and does not apply to all engines.:biggrin:)

On another note, I'm not supporting the fact that an air charger is a good or a bad gadget. All of this is done in the name of testing and researching on whether it works or not. After all, we all want to save a few bucks on fuel here and there right?:driver:
 

BetaProject

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BetaProject

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Yes, an air charger is a 1 way valve but the proper place to install the air charger is at the vacuum lead hose from intake manifold (where you usually connect your vacuum meter with a T-junction hose).

The reason being is that an air charger supplies extra external source of vacuum to your existing vacuum pressure rather than getting it all from your air filter.
Logically, it will supply you with the vacuum needed to your system when under full throttle (at idle, you won't see any difference). If you have a Vacuum Meter you can tell the difference as it can help in maintaining a stable vacuum pressure under load given that you adjust the air charger valve appropriately.

For example, I installed my air charger in between the intake manifold and the FPR. Resulting in better fuel pressure stability at high revs and full load. (It is for my testing purposes only and does not apply to all engines.:biggrin:)

On another note, I'm not supporting the fact that an air charger is a good or a bad gadget. All of this is done in the name of testing and researching on whether it works or not. After all, we all want to save a few bucks on fuel here and there right?:driver:
i see, will research more on the "science" behind it...btw, u from Miri? always saw your car "racing" down to lutong in the morning