Dreaded Steering Wheel Vibrations at High Speed

Mitevo7

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Dear All,

I have been pursuing a dreaded steering wheel vibrations on faster than average speed (85 ++ km/h). My rims setup for the BMW E46 1JZ is BMW OEM 166 style but its a good replica from Taiwan, owner revealed that he used that rim for about 150k kms without any damages. Tire spec is 225/45/17, Rovelo Sport A1 (was on tight budget or all 4 tires so this was recommended by some BMW guys riding on 328i and Mercedes A250). Rim spec is 17 x 8.5J x ET12. I also installed some big ass disc brake at the front which also pushes the wheel further out from the wheel hub. Now the wheels are perfectly aligned with the car body.

Full understood these tyres are not the best brand around so naturally i requested my tyre guy to perform on wheel balancing.

Prior to changing to this tyre, my used rims were fitted with Membat Passion made in Spain and the tyres were defective to begin with so steering wheel vibrates at high speed. What makes me even frustrated now is even with on wheel balancing, the steering wheel still vibrating at high speed but the speed shift higher to 100 ++ and will go away at much faster speed. Besides steering wheel, i also detected slight vibration at the car seats.

My tyre man blamed it on the rear tyre, and proposed to perform on wheel balancing at rear tyre, that could eliminate all vibration issue. Before i agree to do so, need to check with ZTH forumers what's your take on this ?

Thanks,
Ken
 

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Wobble at speed imho is : wheel bearing, tyre, bent rims and in some cases driveshaft. Have you had these checked?
 

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Wobble at speed imho is : wheel bearing, tyre, bent rims and in some cases driveshaft. Have you had these checked?
Dear Izso,

1.) Wheel bearing does not make any noises, no wobble when grab it 9 and 3 o'clock and wiggle it, no free play, so should be fine.
2.) Tyres are manufactured last year Nov, improves the vibrations but still not perfect, the vibrations will go away at much higher speed.
3.) Rims are all fine, round as Nicki Minaj's fake buns.
4.) Driveshaft, now this one is a big question, my long shaft is using stock 1JZ shaft and join with BMW rear shaft. Modder claims that its balanced. The rear differential are all stocks with stock 318ci short shaft. If mechanic recommended to perform on wheel balancing on rear wheels, that will balance the whole drive shaft too ? By theory it should improve the whole situation?

Thanks,
Ken
 

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Dear Izso,

1.) Wheel bearing does not make any noises, no wobble when grab it 9 and 3 o'clock and wiggle it, no free play, so should be fine.
2.) Tyres are manufactured last year Nov, improves the vibrations but still not perfect, the vibrations will go away at much higher speed.
3.) Rims are all fine, round as Nicki Minaj's fake buns.
4.) Driveshaft, now this one is a big question, my long shaft is using stock 1JZ shaft and join with BMW rear shaft. Modder claims that its balanced. The rear differential are all stocks with stock 318ci short shaft. If mechanic recommended to perform on wheel balancing on rear wheels, that will balance the whole drive shaft too ? By theory it should improve the whole situation?

Thanks,
Ken
Yeah, on-wheel should solve the shaft issue too. I dunno - I'm thinking there has to be a reason why it's wobbling. So to "fix it" with a wheel balance is kinda cheating. Haha
 

Mitevo7

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Yeah, on-wheel should solve the shaft issue too. I dunno - I'm thinking there has to be a reason why it's wobbling. So to "fix it" with a wheel balance is kinda cheating. Haha
Does too much wheel offset can cause vibration ? And also my front disc rotor is floating type which 2.5' hub center hub that pushes that wheel further out from the knuckle. Rear wheel hub is stock diameter. I am actually suspecting the front of the car is now same, if not slightly wider than rear. Can that inbalance cause wheel vibrations ?
 

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Very long time ago when i was still young with no white hair i encounter steering wheel vibration with my BLM. Initially it happened betwee 80-90 so i did on wheel ballancing.

Just as i thought its solved it happened again, this time above 120kmh. Did on wheel again but its still there. Was very annoyed coz it happen at my cruising speed.

A friend told me to have ballancing done by a shop in Rahang N9. Was skeptical as 2 shop already tried but i gave it a shot. The machine they used is just to spin the wheel with not display whatsoever. What the tech did is placed his palm on the bumper,fender, door to feel the vibration. Was still skeptical when i took the car back but surprised that it solved my problem

Not sure if the shop is still operating. Its in place they called Rahang lama, N9. If i recalled correctly people called the shop Ah Cheng or Ah Ching. Want to go on weekend better comes very early in the morning. They only do ballancing and allignment.
 

Mitevo7

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Very long time ago when i was still young with no white hair i encounter steering wheel vibration with my BLM. Initially it happened betwee 80-90 so i did on wheel ballancing.

Just as i thought its solved it happened again, this time above 120kmh. Did on wheel again but its still there. Was very annoyed coz it happen at my cruising speed.

A friend told me to have ballancing done by a shop in Rahang N9. Was skeptical as 2 shop already tried but i gave it a shot. The machine they used is just to spin the wheel with not display whatsoever. What the tech did is placed his palm on the bumper,fender, door to feel the vibration. Was still skeptical when i took the car back but surprised that it solved my problem

Not sure if the shop is still operating. Its in place they called Rahang lama, N9. If i recalled correctly people called the shop Ah Cheng or Ah Ching. Want to go on weekend better comes very early in the morning. They only do ballancing and allignment.
My tyre guy used the same technique (feel the vibration) and with the same machine as well. He is very good at this kind of job but properly it might caused by something else. I am suspecting my disc rotor is warped again, its a huge 341 mm disc rotor with large brake pad, properly a slight warp can cause vibrations like this. Not to mention i also realize only at certain speed, braking can cause the similar vibration to steering.
 

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My tyre guy used the same technique (feel the vibration) and with the same machine as well. He is very good at this kind of job but properly it might caused by something else. I am suspecting my disc rotor is warped again, its a huge 341 mm disc rotor with large brake pad, properly a slight warp can cause vibrations like this. Not to mention i also realize only at certain speed, braking can cause the similar vibration to steering.
check rotor condition, no time waste for safety at speed.
My wira front rotor warp, steering feel vibrate during braking.
 

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Does too much wheel offset can cause vibration ? And also my front disc rotor is floating type which 2.5' hub center hub that pushes that wheel further out from the knuckle. Rear wheel hub is stock diameter. I am actually suspecting the front of the car is now same, if not slightly wider than rear. Can that inbalance cause wheel vibrations ?
You are using spacer hub? Does it have a center ring?
 

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Dear All,

I have been pursuing a dreaded steering wheel vibrations on faster than average speed (85 ++ km/h). My rims setup for the BMW E46 1JZ is BMW OEM 166 style but its a good replica from Taiwan, owner revealed that he used that rim for about 150k kms without any damages. Tire spec is 225/45/17, Rovelo Sport A1 (was on tight budget or all 4 tires so this was recommended by some BMW guys riding on 328i and Mercedes A250). Rim spec is 17 x 8.5J x ET12. I also installed some big ass disc brake at the front which also pushes the wheel further out from the wheel hub. Now the wheels are perfectly aligned with the car body.

Full understood these tyres are not the best brand around so naturally i requested my tyre guy to perform on wheel balancing.

Prior to changing to this tyre, my used rims were fitted with Membat Passion made in Spain and the tyres were defective to begin with so steering wheel vibrates at high speed. What makes me even frustrated now is even with on wheel balancing, the steering wheel still vibrating at high speed but the speed shift higher to 100 ++ and will go away at much faster speed. Besides steering wheel, i also detected slight vibration at the car seats.

My tyre man blamed it on the rear tyre, and proposed to perform on wheel balancing at rear tyre, that could eliminate all vibration issue. Before i agree to do so, need to check with ZTH forumers what's your take on this ?

Thanks,
Ken
Steering vibrate then front wheel off balance. Car body vibrate the is rear wheels off balance, probably car seat too......lol
 

6UE5t

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Proper on-wheel balancing should solve the issue. The problem is, you need to mark the fitting position so that next time when need to remove the wheels, they can be installed back at the exact same positioning again to maintain the balance. My Mark X always do on-wheel balancing for front wheels but then one time I forgot to mark the positioning when doing suspension replacements, hence when wheels put back, got vibration again. So no choice but to do another on-wheel balancing. Another thing is this type of balancing is much more precise but that means if just a little of the weights somehow got displaced then you'd feel vibration again, so its more sensitive.
 

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Proper on-wheel balancing should solve the issue. The problem is, you need to mark the fitting position so that next time when need to remove the wheels, they can be installed back at the exact same positioning again to maintain the balance. My Mark X always do on-wheel balancing for front wheels but then one time I forgot to mark the positioning when doing suspension replacements, hence when wheels put back, got vibration again. So no choice but to do another on-wheel balancing. Another thing is this type of balancing is much more precise but that means if just a little of the weights somehow got displaced then you'd feel vibration again, so its more sensitive.
I used to have that problem, even with on wheel balancing, sometimes even got mark still will vibrate. I have now fitted center cones and using off wheel balancing and never had vibration for many years already. Now also no need do marking.......lol
 

6UE5t

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I used to have that problem, even with on wheel balancing, sometimes even got mark still will vibrate. I have now fitted center cones and using off wheel balancing and never had vibration for many years already. Now also no need do marking.......lol
Center cones I use already
 

Mitevo7

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check rotor condition, no time waste for safety at speed.
My wira front rotor warp, steering feel vibrate during braking.
It was skimmed 3 weeks ago, probably the job isn't perfect.
 

Mitevo7

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You are using spacer hub? Does it have a center ring?
Hi, we measured the bore size of the rim and center cone of my E46, measurements said it matches. By right it shouldn't vibrate.
 

Mitevo7

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Steering vibrate then front wheel off balance. Car body vibrate the is rear wheels off balance, probably car seat too......lol
I am still debating with the mechanic to use a center cone but he insists no need for cone, cause the size matches. Alot of BMW wheels are interchangable, furthermore, i am using using aftermarket design but OEM designed.
 

Mitevo7

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On wheel is good but it doesnt explain the root of his issue. His car didnt use to do this.
Before changing to 17", everything is good and smooth, that time my wheels are still buried further in the car body, now it extended out till aligned with the car body. Mechanic said too much offset can have this issue, has something to do with the distance between wheel center and the knuckle.
 

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Before changing to 17", everything is good and smooth, that time my wheels are still buried further in the car body, now it extended out till aligned with the car body. Mechanic said too much offset can have this issue, has something to do with the distance between wheel center and the knuckle.
Possible coz logically if some minor unbalance in the rims, it can be more magnified as it gets further away. Try do on wheel balancing at another different place, maybe they can do it more precisely? My regular place is King Of Rims in Shah Alam coz I don't know where else has it.
 

Mitevo7

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Possible coz logically if some minor unbalance in the rims, it can be more magnified as it gets further away. Try do on wheel balancing at another different place, maybe they can do it more precisely? My regular place is King Of Rims in Shah Alam coz I don't know where else has it.
No mood to drive the car out as i hate the vibrations, now the car is still with him. The last attempt he outsourced to his friend to do it, now he will be performing the balancing himself. Hope in his hands, he can do a perfect job.

Thanks,
Ken
 

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Possible coz logically if some minor unbalance in the rims, it can be more magnified as it gets further away. Try do on wheel balancing at another different place, maybe they can do it more precisely? My regular place is King Of Rims in Shah Alam coz I don't know where else has it.
Like that place. Their mechanic balancing with machinery and human method.
 

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Does too much wheel offset can cause vibration ? And also my front disc rotor is floating type which 2.5' hub center hub that pushes that wheel further out from the knuckle. Rear wheel hub is stock diameter. I am actually suspecting the front of the car is now same, if not slightly wider than rear. Can that inbalance cause wheel vibrations ?
It might now that you mention it.
 

Mitevo7

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If you still have your old rims/tyres, stick them in and you will know immediately whether to rule rims out.
Can't do, the M3 brakes are too fxxking huge, my stock 16' can't fit at all, not even with the widest spacers.
 

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Can't do, the M3 brakes are too fxxking huge, my stock 16' can't fit at all, not even with the widest spacers.
The 330/335 brake calipers are larger and those are PNP without having to change rims. Maybe try those
 

Mitevo7

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Dear All,

Just found out one thing, the centre bore size of the rear wheels are not matched, therefore causes all the vibrations to the body. The front one matches due to i need to use after market wheel bearing to mount the disc rotor, and the bore size at the front is 74.5 mm. The rear is 72.5 mm. We jacked the car and put the gear in D to see the movement and noticed the wheels are hopping up and down. We just need to install the right fitment of centre cone and see whether it cures this shit.

Thanks,
Ken
 
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Mitevo7

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The 330/335 brake calipers are larger and those are PNP without having to change rims. Maybe try those
Too bad i bought the M3 brakes for the M letter wordings LOL. And it came with aftermarket size floating disc rotors, it was a great deal. I even grabbed along the eibach front and rear adjustable antiroll bar so all in was a very sweet deal.
 
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parakey

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Dear All,

Just found out one thing, the centre bore size of the rear wheels are not matched, therefore causes all the vibrations to the body. The front one matches due to i need to use after market wheel bearing to mount the disc rotor, and the bore size at the front is 74.5 mm. The rear is 72.5 mm. We jacked the car and put the gear in D to see the movement and noticed the wheels are hopping up and down. We just need to install the right fitment of centre cone and see whether it cures this shit.

Thanks,
Ken
Congratulations. I think you found the culprit
 

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I am still debating with the mechanic to use a center cone but he insists no need for cone, cause the size matches. Alot of BMW wheels are interchangable, furthermore, i am using using aftermarket design but OEM designed.
The center ring make the wheels snub fit. My tayarman use white teflon, he machine out the ring.
When pull out the wheels need more punch up, down, left, right. Hahaha
 

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Before changing to 17", everything is good and smooth, that time my wheels are still buried further in the car body, now it extended out till aligned with the car body. Mechanic said too much offset can have this issue, has something to do with the distance between wheel center and the knuckle.
The wheel further out is original rims offset or by using spacers?
 

vr2turbo

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The center ring make the wheels snub fit. My tayarman use white teflon, he machine out the ring.
When pull out the wheels need more punch up, down, left, right. Hahaha
mine made of aluminum, had balancing issues before using them. need to centralized then on wheel balancing. then every time take out, mark the hole also no use.....lol Now with the cone, off wheel balancing ok already, take out put back no marking also no issue......haha
 

Mitevo7

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The wheel further out is original rims offset or by using spacers?
2 things that made the front wheels sir further out:

1.) Negative offset of the wheels
2.) The disc rotor center hub is wider than stock and came with centric hub design, sort of like a spacer.
 

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2 things that made the front wheels sir further out:

1.) Negative offset of the wheels
2.) The disc rotor center hub is wider than stock and came with centric hub design, sort of like a spacer.
As long as have centric hub that fits the rims center, they are ok. Many spacers are just flat so it does not keep the rims centralized......
 

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Dear All,

Just found out one thing, the centre bore size of the rear wheels are not matched, therefore causes all the vibrations to the body. The front one matches due to i need to use after market wheel bearing to mount the disc rotor, and the bore size at the front is 74.5 mm. The rear is 72.5 mm. We jacked the car and put the gear in D to see the movement and noticed the wheels are hopping up and down. We just need to install the right fitment of centre cone and see whether it cures this shit.

Thanks,
Ken
Your vibration problem settled?
 

Mitevo7

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Your vibration problem settled?
Yes it was settled, how amazing that just a 2 mm difference in hub bore size can caused so much trouble. Now i am able to drive the car with confidence !
 

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Yes it was settled, how amazing that just a 2 mm difference in hub bore size can caused so much trouble. Now i am able to drive the car with confidence !
That was why my first question to you was, got center ring?.....lol
 

Mitevo7

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That was why my first question to you was, got center ring?.....lol
Initially no, coz the mechanic insist it doesn’t need centre ring cause its oem. Finally he gave in and check for free play and found it. Haha
 

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Initially no, coz the mechanic insist it doesn’t need centre ring cause its oem. Finally he gave in and check for free play and found it. Haha
Simple case of removing the rear wheel and measuring. Your mechanic is quite a stubborn fella
 

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Simple case of removing the rear wheel and measuring. Your mechanic is quite a stubborn fella
I yelled at him to finally threaten him i am not paying until you cured the issue. And there we go :)

Yeah, most mechanic will jack up the wheels and use hand to rotate and confirm about the issue.
That's what he did, and the stock wheels and lug nuts are very tight when testing. Therefore he wasn't suspecting the centre cone either.
 

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I yelled at him to finally threaten him i am not paying until you cured the issue. And there we go :)
Notes this down. Yelling sometimes works :biggrin:


Yeah, most mechanic will jack up the wheels and use hand to rotate and confirm about the issue.
Compared to the power transmitted by the engine to the rear wheel, how much power can arm wiggling transmit? Wiggling test only good for badly worn arms; generally stuff which driver should be able to feel at low speeds. Let's say if rear wheel bearing is making a bit of noise. I dont think wriggling is able to detect that; not unless your bearing is about to fall into pieces
 

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Notes this down. Yelling sometimes works :biggrin:

Compared to the power transmitted by the engine to the rear wheel, how much power can arm wiggling transmit? Wiggling test only good for badly worn arms; generally stuff which driver should be able to feel at low speeds. Let's say if rear wheel bearing is making a bit of noise. I dont think wriggling is able to detect that; not unless your bearing is about to fall into pieces
Provided if you are close friend to your mechanic, otherwise he can make your ride even worse
 

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Provided if you are close friend to your mechanic, otherwise he can make your ride even worse
My mechanic now become family friend some more. Very mild mannered and had never raise voice before, now 30 plus years already.....lol
Sometimes If he free, he come and collect my car go repair......hahhahhahaha
 
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My mechanic now become family friend some more. Very mild mannered and had never raise voice before, now 30 plus years already.....lol
Sometimes If he free, he come and collect my car go repair......hahhahhahaha
For car guys we will need to have one of few buddies like this, for myself i stick to one mechanic friend because i have never seen any mechanic been so attentive and detail to car repairs, i can say all my cars under his care can run at high speed, engine and drivetrain feels like new or better under his recommendation and maintenance. Only draw back is his charges aren't cheap, quality guarantee.

Thanks,
Ken
 

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But seriously this "dreaded" vibration issue was solved few posts again, please move on to the next one :)

Thanks,
Ken