Anyone knows how can i clean the wheel arch? its full of dirt and stuff

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kc2

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kc2

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Anyone knows how can i clean the wheel arch? its full of dirt and stuff... i think it's been there for a long long long long time... :x
[snapback]52151839[/snapback]​
have you been having lots of struggles in getting your ride clean.....inspite of paying hundreds or thousand of $$$$$$ still struggling to make your baby shines or rescue her scratches



under the wheel arch


before –


agitate with Alien power clean & brush off


testing time – how good is good?

ta da


-------moving into interior----------
ta da



tips for cleaning wheel well - definitely with the help of brushes
wheels arch cleaning



ehhhhhh

look at this abandon ride (park under the trees for years) coated with tree saps



pain in the ass to get rids of it

during the magical transformation takes place



ta da - after paint transference removed - by All power Alien clean



to read more at here
hi KC, i would like to attend ur auto detailing class. when u going to organize an auto detailing class again?
[snapback]52111850[/snapback]​
soon very soon - get ready to rock
 

ShowTime

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To some people, PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY DEGREASER OR MULTI CLEANER to compare with Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean for paint cleaning! Doing so will cause disaster. OPC/Alien Clean is a specially formulated polymer-based cleaner. Can be called "Science in a bottle".
 

fishbonezken

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fishbonezken

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Nice thread KC, clean wheel arches do make a difference!

Bro Showtime, not trying to correct your statement or anything but there are many cleaners out there that can be classified as degreasers and vice versa. I've used Meguiar's All Purpose Cleaner, Meguiar's Super Degreaser, Osren Degreaser FX and Osren Multi Clean to deep the clean the paint many times with no adverse effects. Just have to use the usual precautions such as not using it on a hot panel and rinse it off before it dries off. I only do this prior to polishing since I don't want my pads to become to turn black so fast from polishing a neglected car. Doing it regularly *might* pose some adverse effects such as drying out the paint which *may* lead to premature clearcoat failure. Which is where paint polishes is used to clean paint instead of cleaners & degreasers. Bottom line, besides knowing the product that you are using, it's also how you use it. Hope that clears up any misconception to some people.

Cheers
 

Veloc

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Second Fishbonez's reply.

OPC is a remarkable product I must say and I have yet to see any others come close to it. It can degrease and yet so safe that it can clean interiors. But to say that other products will cause disaster is a little exaggeration. OPC is paint safe. So is many other product that is labeled "paint safe". The problem comes only when people ignore instructions and used not paint safe products on paint. One example is using Megs APC on paint. It is clearly stated "DO NOT USE ON PAINTED AREAS".

At the end of the day, all of these are chemicals. There are people saying that degreasers/strong cleaners are poison but OPC is safe. But in the end, OPC is also a chemical and poison as well. Paint safe doesn't mean safe for consumption. If a person keeps advocating this, perhaps he should try to drink OPC to demonstrate that it is not a poison.

Hope that clears any misconception and happy detailing...
 

ShowTime

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Nice thread KC, clean wheel arches do make a difference!

Bro Showtime, not trying to correct your statement or anything but there are many cleaners out there that can be classified as degreasers and vice versa. I've used Meguiar's All Purpose Cleaner, Meguiar's Super Degreaser, Osren Degreaser FX and Osren Multi Clean to deep the clean the paint many times with no adverse effects. Just have to use the usual precautions such as not using it on a hot panel and rinse it off before it dries off. I only do this prior to polishing since I don't want my pads to become to turn black so fast from polishing a neglected car. Doing it regularly *might* pose some adverse effects such as drying out the paint which *may* lead to premature clearcoat failure. Which is where paint polishes is used to clean paint instead of cleaners & degreasers. Bottom line, besides knowing the product that you are using, it's also how you use it. Hope that clears up any misconception to some people.

Cheers
Wow fish!! One of the legends finally replied! I saw most of your detailing works that you mixed shampoo+degreaser FX to further cleanse the paint but bro hitachi of osren doesn't really recommend it. Use at own risk.
 

Veloc

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I was once like you bro. Thinking that all other products are bad because of ideas being put into my mind. But I have stepped out of it. I'm a scientist, and I just cannot take untrue facts that is fed into my mind. In science, truth must prevail. So what I'm trying to do is just clear up any misconception, that's all. I was once mistaken, so now I hope to help others currently in the same state out of it.
 

fishbonezken

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Wow fish!! One of the legends finally replied! I saw most of your detailing works that you mixed shampoo+degreaser FX to further cleanse the paint but bro hitachi of osren doesn't really recommend it. Use at own risk.
Bro I'm not a legend. Although I start early, many have already surpassed me with their determination and persistence. I wouldn't recommend the shampoo+degreaser method too since I don't want to take responsibility should something go wrong. I just show my process, it's entirely up to you to use it or not.
 

s1tl

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Nice thread KC, clean wheel arches do make a difference!

Bro Showtime, not trying to correct your statement or anything but there are many cleaners out there that can be classified as degreasers and vice versa. I've used Meguiar's All Purpose Cleaner, Meguiar's Super Degreaser, Osren Degreaser FX and Osren Multi Clean to deep the clean the paint many times with no adverse effects. Just have to use the usual precautions such as not using it on a hot panel and rinse it off before it dries off. I only do this prior to polishing since I don't want my pads to become to turn black so fast from polishing a neglected car. Doing it regularly *might* pose some adverse effects such as drying out the paint which *may* lead to premature clearcoat failure. Which is where paint polishes is used to clean paint instead of cleaners & degreasers. Bottom line, besides knowing the product that you are using, it's also how you use it. Hope that clears up any misconception to some people.

Cheers
the legend has spoken..nuff said. i have personally used fishboneken's special dilution ratio of one of the strongest cleaner.Meguiars All Purpose Cleaner to clean Leather..yes its original BMW Leather. works wonders.:adore:
Ive worked with the legend himself. There is no such thing as degreaser and apc is not safe. Showtime i was once like youm OPC is everything. but now i see the true picture. Hope you enjoy the process of finding out the truth
 

seech

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Hmmm.... don't know what to say and have not said anything up to now.... but I also can't leave things like this.

Why all the underlying resentment and unhappiness? *sigh*

Aren't we all just detailers that love detailing?

There are many products with many different uses. Are they all the same? Most definitely not!

Everyone has an opinion and we can't control everything that is written about any product but that doesn't mean either that one is right and the other wrong, just two differing opinions.

It is indeed disappointing to read some of the post which have implied that untrue facts (which is an oxymoron in itself) have been spread... but let's look at the facts.

KC just shared how easily it is to clean a dirty wheel arch with OPC. Indeed OPC is a great product and does make it very easy to clean stubborn stains SAFELY.

Does this mean that there are no other products that can do the same? Of course not!

Anyone wanting to start their own thread on how you can clean wheel arches with washing detergent/floor cleaners/acid/thinner/some other APC/degreaser/etc are most welcome to do so as well. We were just sharing what can be done with OPC.

Can you achieve the same with the many other brands on the market? Of course you can!

Perhaps some of this controversy was started by ShowTime's statement on how OPC is safe for the paint while other products may not be. Controversial statement?

Indeed...

ShowTime is a hardcore detailing enthusiast who meticulously maintains his ride in pristine condition and that was just his opinion.

Was what he posted an untrue fact?

Best to just go back to basics and examine the facts of the matter to get to the true facts... :-)

Technically, as Fish pointed out, a degreaser is just a stronger cleaner but then again, there are many different types available on the market.

Optimum is based in the USA and there are legal requirements on what can be printed on labels and there are requirements to maintain MSDS sheets etc.

IS OPC SAFE FOR PAINT COMPARED WITH DEGREASERS FROM OTHER MANUFACTURERS?

Optimum clearly states on their label that OPC is environmentally friendly, safe on all vehicle surfaces and SAFE FOR THE USER.

What about the other products from other manufacturers?

Let's compare the FACTS!

As an example.... and for illustration purposes only as the label and MSDS for this product is also readily available and it is also made in the USA.

Meguiar's Super Degreaser.

A great product for what it does, which is to degrease engine bays etc. I was also a Meguiar's user before switching over to Optimum and they make great products.

However, while the Meg's SD is great for degreasing engine bays, it is not recommended for use on paint. Which is what started all of this controversy in the first place isn't it?

Can you use other products for paint or leather? OF COURSE! But are you sure you want to?

Let's check out the FACTS on this matter.

The MSDS sheets for both of these products are available here:

OPC:
http://www.optimumcarcare.com.au/msds/MSDS%20Power%20Clean%20PC2008%202009%281%29.pdf

Meg's Super Degreaser:
http://www.meguiars.com.au/msds_files/D10805.pdf

Do download them, print them out and study them carefully. It is a legal disclosure document that all manufacturers have to file so it is a FACT!

You will see that OPC is completely safe to use. No major health hazards, non flamable, no respiratory protection required, NOT HAZARDOUS TO TRANSPORT ACCORDING TO D.O.T. REGULATIONS, exempted from listing on the TSCA inventory of chemical substances, does not fall under Section 302, 304, 312 or 313 for toxic or hazardous chemicals AND under California State Law, I quote, "THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS NO CHEMICALS LISTED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA UNDER THE SAFE DRINKING WATER AND TOXIC ENFORCEMENT ACT OF 1986 AS BEING KNOWN TO CAUSE CANCER, BIRTH DEFECTS, OR OTHER REPRODUCTIVE HARM."

How much safer can a product be and yet still has such cleaning power?

What about the Meg's SD?

It is classified as a CORROSIVE LIQUID containing potassium hydroxide, it is a combustible liquid, has an S5 Poison schedule, is TOXIC TO AQUATIC ORGANISMS, several of the ingredients have listed toxicity levels. There is an entire section on ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION on Page 10 of the MSDS stating clearly DO NOT allow product to contaminate water and to dispose of the product properly as it is HIGHLY TOXIC to fish and other aquatic organisms. It is also classified as a Class 8 Corrosive material and has a Hazchem rating of: 2x and a Class 8 rating for dangerous goods for land, sea and air transport as well.

How about Meg's All Purpose Cleaner you ask?

MSDS here:
http://www.meguiars.com.au/msds_files/D10105.pdf

Chemwatch Hazard Rating:
Body Contact: HIGH
Toxicity: Moderate
Chronic: Moderate

S5 Poison Schedule, combustible, is listed under the Australia Exposure Standards, components have a listed toxicity level, GROUP 3 CARCINOGEN!!!, listed as a COMBUSTIBLE LIQUID for transport labels.

So..... back to the point at hand. Are all the products the same if they all perform the same function? Need I say more?

IS OPC SAFE FOR PAINT COMPARED WITH DEGREASERS FROM OTHER MANUFACTURERS?

Maybe you should take a close look at the MSDS sheets for all the products and decide which ones you want to use and which ones you might want to take some other precautionary measures with.

The entire list of Optimum's MSDS sheets are here:
Optimum Car Care Products Australia : MSDS

Meg's is here:
MSDS | Meguiar's

As I said, many products on the market and we are all free to choose any that we like.

Look up the FACTS and make up your own minds. All this disagreements, accusations, etc. are all uncalled for.

If you don't like it, don't use it.

---------- Post added at 04:08 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

There is no such thing as degreaser and apc is not safe. Showtime i was once like youm OPC is everything. but now i see the true picture. Hope you enjoy the process of finding out the truth
Maybe we should find out the truth first before preaching it to others....

Link for your convenience.
OPC
http://www.optimumcarcare.com.au/msds/MSDS%20Power%20Clean%20PC2008%202009%281%29.pdf

SD
http://www.meguiars.com.au/msds_files/D10805.pdf

APC
http://www.meguiars.com.au/msds_files/D10105.pdf

Dissapointing.....
 

fishbonezken

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..and that's how you do a valid rebuttal!

Seech, I apologise if I've disrespected you or your line of products as I have no intention to do so.
 

eohl79

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Seech/Jack long winded response. Read properly what Showtime posted and where are all the response are aimed at.

"To some people, PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY DEGREASER OR MULTI CLEANER to compare with Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean for paint cleaning! Doing so will cause disaster. OPC/Alien Clean is a specially formulated polymer-based cleaner. Can be called "Science in a bottle"."

Generalizing saying nothing beats OPC. Please clarify and elaborate on the word "DISASTER" when using ANY other degreaser/multicleaner. Of course such a statement is surely going to stir the hornets.

The word "safe" for the user is subjective. My own skin is having problems when in contact with degreaser like OPC as well as others. Skin tingles when it comes into contact with my skin and crack/peel later. That's why I now use long vinyl gloves to protect my hands from coming into contact with all these chemicals. Safe that you won't die or suffer terminal illness? Maybe. Safe if accidentally consumed? Hmmm...


Surely some people using OPC never bothered about what was stated in the MSDS:

SECTION IX: EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT FOR ROUTINE HANDLING:
EYES: USE PROPER PROTECTION – SAFETY GLASSES AT A MINIMUM.
SKIN: WASH WITH SOAP AND WATER BEFORE EATING, DRINKING, SMOKING OR USING TOILET
FACILITIES. LAUNDER CONTAMINATED CLOTHING BEFORE REUSE.
SUITABLE GLOVES: POLYVINYLCHLORIDE.
INHALATION: NO RESPIRATORY PROTECTION SHOULD BE NEEDED
 

ShowTime

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Seech/Jack long winded response. Read properly what Showtime posted and where are all the response are aimed at.

"To some people, PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY DEGREASER OR MULTI CLEANER to compare with Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean for paint cleaning! Doing so will cause disaster. OPC/Alien Clean is a specially formulated polymer-based cleaner. Can be called "Science in a bottle"."

Generalizing saying nothing beats OPC. Please clarify and elaborate on the word "DISASTER" when using ANY other degreaser/multicleaner. Of course such a statement is surely going to stir the hornets.

The word "safe" for the user is subjective. My own skin is having problems when in contact with degreaser like OPC as well as others. Skin tingles when it comes into contact with my skin and crack/peel later. That's why I now use long vinyl gloves to protect my hands from coming into contact with all these chemicals. Safe that you won't die or suffer terminal illness? Maybe. Safe if accidentally consumed? Hmmm...


Surely some people using OPC never bothered about what was stated in the MSDS:

SECTION IX: EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT FOR ROUTINE HANDLING:
EYES: USE PROPER PROTECTION – SAFETY GLASSES AT A MINIMUM.
SKIN: WASH WITH SOAP AND WATER BEFORE EATING, DRINKING, SMOKING OR USING TOILET
FACILITIES. LAUNDER CONTAMINATED CLOTHING BEFORE REUSE.
SUITABLE GLOVES: POLYVINYLCHLORIDE.
INHALATION: NO RESPIRATORY PROTECTION SHOULD BE NEEDED
Sorry to have caused some confusion in my previous post. What I was trying to say is... You can't really be certain what will happen if you use any degreaser/multi cleaner full strength of other brand without knowing what might happen. Most degreaser/multicleaner I used other than Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean does make rubber turn white too. Seech/Jack personally admitted of using Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean all the time and at full strength(especially on paint) without any side affects. Just remember to use on a cool surface in the shade and do not let it dry. Rinse immediately before it dries. Also safer for the consumer and minimum impact to the environment is a plus. MSDS is their proof.
 
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kc2

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bro eohl79
I have worked in a children home over 10 years (orphanage) seen so much children with irritant & sensitive skins, some even have eczema...some with even allergy to cockroach path & get allergy if comes in contact.....

we have to be wise as a serpent but be as gentle like a dove

even Johnson & Johnson baby shampoo has POLYVINYL CHLORIDE has in their Ingredient

Hazardous Decomp Products: POLYVINYL CHLORIDE EMITS HYDROGEN CHLORIDE & CO.

they even asked you to take precaution
INHALATION OF GLYCERIN MIST FOLLOWING ACCIDENTAL INGESTION MAY CAUSE
RESPIRATORY IRRITATION.
Emergency/First Aid Proc: EYES: FLUSH W/WATER. INGESTION: ENCOURAGE FLUID
INTAKE. OBTAIN MEDICAL ATTENTION IN ALL CASES.

http://skbiology.pbworks.com/f/MSDSJohnsonBabyShampoo.pdf
so is it safe to bath our babies & children with this so acclaimed PH5.5 neutral?


you and many others have attended our detailing clinic and I even corrected the way you hold your rotary, cos that will impose danger when working with machinery.....pls take serious precaution and handle with great care- not mentioning danger/injury impose to our body -

who says car detailing is safe! why do you reckon others charges thousand to clean a car - where u can just get done with one product

I did with just Alien clean & protect with Opt Protectant plus to clean up a massive thrashed up Porsche 4S interior, where other premier detailer quoted him RM4500

does it makes any sense?

My Passion is to bring awareness and empower others in car detailing ....

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

..and that's how you do a valid rebuttal!

Seech, I apologise if I've disrespected you or your line of products as I have no intention to do so.
bro not to worry

we loves u

---------- Post added at 06:07 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

secret of making rm 4500...its an Alcantara in a Porsche 4S

Car detailer: Porsche Carrera 911 4S - massive interior r3scue by KC's
 

ken yeang

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its not exactly the wheel arch.

It more like the inner wheel arch, or inner wheel well.
 

seech

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..and that's how you do a valid rebuttal!

Seech, I apologise if I've disrespected you or your line of products as I have no intention to do so.
Hey fishy. No worries at all. I like and respect you bro. No one can match your meticulous attention to detail and unbiased opinion. Cheers!

Seech/Jack long winded response. Read properly what Showtime posted and where are all the response are aimed at.

"To some people, PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY DEGREASER OR MULTI CLEANER to compare with Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean for paint cleaning! Doing so will cause disaster. OPC/Alien Clean is a specially formulated polymer-based cleaner. Can be called "Science in a bottle"."

Generalizing saying nothing beats OPC. Please clarify and elaborate on the word "DISASTER" when using ANY other degreaser/multicleaner. Of course such a statement is surely going to stir the hornets.

The word "safe" for the user is subjective. My own skin is having problems when in contact with degreaser like OPC as well as others. Skin tingles when it comes into contact with my skin and crack/peel later. That's why I now use long vinyl gloves to protect my hands from coming into contact with all these chemicals. Safe that you won't die or suffer terminal illness? Maybe. Safe if accidentally consumed? Hmmm...


Surely some people using OPC never bothered about what was stated in the MSDS:

SECTION IX: EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT FOR ROUTINE HANDLING:
EYES: USE PROPER PROTECTION – SAFETY GLASSES AT A MINIMUM.
SKIN: WASH WITH SOAP AND WATER BEFORE EATING, DRINKING, SMOKING OR USING TOILET
FACILITIES. LAUNDER CONTAMINATED CLOTHING BEFORE REUSE.
SUITABLE GLOVES: POLYVINYLCHLORIDE.
INHALATION: NO RESPIRATORY PROTECTION SHOULD BE NEEDED
Thank you for pointing out that the products are not meant to be consumed. Not sure what you are trying to say about that but anyway..... Let's just stick to the facts. I'm just pointing out that based in the MSDS sheets that OPC is much safer to use and has much less risks than the other products. Wearing gloves is definitely a good precaution especially if you have sensitive skin... All the more reason why you might want to reconsider using a product that is classified in the MSDS as being a CARCINOGEN! Also California has some of the strictest environmental laws anywhere in the world and OPC has been cleared by them also.

I'm just presenting the FACTS, it is up to the consumer to decide which they prefer....

In any case, I would also say that perhaps ShowTime was a bit over enthusiastic in his post and of course people would respond but that's not the problem.

The problem is that when we start to get responses like those below:

I was once like you bro. Thinking that all other products are bad because of ideas being put into my mind. But I have stepped out of it. I'm a scientist, and I just cannot take untrue facts that is fed into my mind. In science, truth must prevail. So what I'm trying to do is just clear up any misconception, that's all. I was once mistaken, so now I hope to help others currently in the same state out of it.
the legend has spoken..nuff said. i have personally used fishboneken's special dilution ratio of one of the strongest cleaner.Meguiars All Purpose Cleaner to clean Leather..yes its original BMW Leather. works wonders.:adore:
Ive worked with the legend himself. There is no such thing as degreaser and apc is not safe. Showtime i was once like youm OPC is everything. but now i see the true picture. Hope you enjoy the process of finding out the truth
Read it again.....

What are they trying to say?

Misconception? Untrue fact? No such thing as a degreaser and APC (that) is not safe? Now I see the true picture? Finding out the truth?

That's what my lengthy and according to you long winded response was addressing.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when someone suggests that there is some malicious attempt to spread lies then that's where I draw the line.

Anyway, I have said what I needed to say. My advice would be to make up your own minds and not be influenced by others as some people might have ulterior motives to discredit others for their own reasons.

Peace...
 

s1tl

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wow i didnt know my lone voice could create such a spark..I guess i am no longer welcomed here as I have been kick out of Detailien without my concent. Oh well have fun with ur Power Clean since its so safe i shall try to mix it with coke and drink it and see if i will end up in KPJ anot. i shall update my hospital bed camwhore when im there. tata xoxo
 

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Sorry Jack and KC if I sounded disrespectful to you and Opt in any way. Like I said, I am addressing the outrageous claims of ShowTime (using degreaser will cause disaster) and not bashing Opt at all. Do not forget, HEY I AM AN OPTIMUM USER HERE. And yes, OPC is still by far the best strong cleaner I have used.
 

seech

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Sorry Jack and KC if I sounded disrespectful to you and Opt in any way. Like I said, I am addressing the outrageous claims of ShowTime (using degreaser will cause disaster) and not bashing Opt at all. Do not forget, HEY I AM AN OPTIMUM USER HERE. And yes, OPC is still by far the best strong cleaner I have used.
No worries bro. I don't dispute that the statement using a degreaser will cause disaster to be controversial. Anyway, its not you. My sincere apologies.
 

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Daniel & the staff of the TM car wash

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------

 

ShowTime

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Daniel & the staff of the TM car wash

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------

True KC. I noticed that some harsh degreaser/multi cleaner also does have a strong toxic smell that also makes working environment more unpleasant & requires to wear face mask. OPC has a milder scent & also makes me feel more comfortable using it after reading their MSDS(Material Safety Data Sheet).

Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean always my preferred multi cleaner. Has the punching power of harsh degreaser/multi cleaner with the minimal health risk involved which I believe is very important because I will be storing it in the house.
 
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jonlsl

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Any pH neutral cleaner out there?
Don't know but would a neutral cleaner be powerful enough? I'm quite sure slightly alkaline would be needed for a decent clean? No? At least as a degreaser.

Would a safe and cheaper alternative to OPC be DG Ultimate Orange? I haven't tried it yet.
 

eohl79

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Any pH neutral cleaner out there?
Acidic, caustic, neutral pH cleaners, be it "safe" or not you sometimes don't know what kind of contaminant you are dealing with that may end up on your skin. So wear gloves... see bro Fish very smart always wearing gloves in all his detailing pics :top: Long term effects of the chemicals + contaminants who knows... better safe than sorry.
 

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Its always good idea to protect ourselves from chemical by wearing safety gear BUT its also very important to minimize that risk by choosing safer chemical to use with the similar performance. For example I WOULDN'T store Meguiar's Wheel Brightener/Super Degreaser or any degreaser or any chemical in my home without first looking through their MSDS. Cheap+fast+effective doesn't mean its good! Take for example road side car washes... very fast, cheap, clean but is it good for the user and environment? I can tell you from the shampoo they use, to the engine degreaser, tyre shine... all have huge environmental impact.

Car Shampoo(mostly alkaline), degreaser(no msds), tyre shine(solvent/petroleum based)...the list goes on. I see some road side car washes that the chemicals are so aggressive that causes concrete to crack. Just smelling the chemical makes your lungs seeking fresh air.

---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

If I run a business be it car wash or detailing center then the priority goes like this.

1st. Own/Worker's safety(request them to wear protective gear & by choosing the lowest health hazard as possible chemicals without sacrificing product performance)
2nd. Environment (choosing the lowest health hazard as possible chemicals without sacrificing product performance & if there is a way to put something to neutralize the chemical then it would be a plus).
3rd. Make money.


A heartless employer will do this.

Make money by buying the cheapest and most effective chemicals to get the job done without thinking the health safety of the workers & the environment. The employer doesn't care this because most just sitting in office collecting/counting money.
 

KrisMas

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I donno. Being using all these chemicals for god know how many years already, but only during weekends and under my open porch la. I'm still alive and kicking and my skin hasn't turned to green yet, nor do I have any of my nails falling away. I think all these 'safe for use' is being blown out of proportion. I mean, these stuffs had been on the shelf for years and are still selling well. There must be a reason for it.

I also noticed the misconceptions on the products INTENDED usage. There are those products for the normal consumer (average Joe), bodyshops (Professionals) and Pro-sumer (people like us). I'm in the opinion that Optimum products are marketed for Pro-sumer, i.e. people who know about detailing products, what they do and take detailing seriously (might or might not do commercial details), but don't have a fix or permanent facilities to get a controlled environment. Therefore they needed something that's 'reasonably' safe to use, to both their person or the vehicle. To get this, there need to be a compromise on the 'potentcy' or 'effectiveness'. Products like Meg's Super Degreaser or Osren DegreaserFX are, however, marketed SPECIFICALLY for bodyshops, i.e. to those who have a permanet facilities where safety can be controlled through using safety equipments and attires (supposedly, but unfortunately most Malaysian places don't adhere to them). These bodyshops concerns only with time as, to them, time is money. So they need something that could work effectively, 'relatively' safe and, most importantly, FAST.

Yes, OPC is a strong and effective cleaner and degreaser, but it's not as strong nor can work as fast as, for example, DegreaserFX or Meg's Super Degreaser. But, as above, OPC is for the pro-sumer and the Meg's are for bodyshops. If you want to use those products that are meant for bodyshops, of course you'd need to take the necessary precautions. If you don't think you can do that, then OPC would be a better choice, but you'd still need to take some precautions as required.

End of the day, whether it's caustic chemicals or 'safe' chemicals, it all boils down to the person who uses them. If it's harmful to you then take the necessary precautions or change to something else. Just USE THEM WISELY as oppose to BLINDLY.

Regards.
 
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eohl79

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Its always good idea to protect ourselves from chemical by wearing safety gear BUT its also very important to minimize that risk by choosing safer chemical to use with the similar performance. For example I WOULDN'T store Meguiar's Wheel Brightener/Super Degreaser or any degreaser or any chemical in my home without first looking through their MSDS. Cheap+fast+effective doesn't mean its good! Take for example road side car washes... very fast, cheap, clean but is it good for the user and environment? I can tell you from the shampoo they use, to the engine degreaser, tyre shine... all have huge environmental impact.

Car Shampoo(mostly alkaline), degreaser(no msds), tyre shine(solvent/petroleum based)...the list goes on. I see some road side car washes that the chemicals are so aggressive that causes concrete to crack. Just smelling the chemical makes your lungs seeking fresh air.
There are plenty of road side car wash that uses all kind of hazardous chemicals but at the same time our authorities and environmental regulations here are crap.

I don't have Meg's SD or wheel brightener because I don't find it safe for me. So I use others which serves my purpose and is saf-er but not entirely. FYI I have 1 gallon of OPC in my arsenal and others too. But sad to say all the degreasers including OPC cause me some skin irritation. As safe as what some poeple claim it to be or say it is okay to store it in their house, do remember Optimum also includes a section which says the following even if it was deemed safe:

SECTION IV: EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES
EYE CONTACT: FLUSH EYES WITH WATER FOR 15 MINUTES. IF IRRITATION OCCURS, GET
MEDICAL ATTENTION.
SKIN CONTACT: WASH WITH SOAP AND WATER. IF IRRITATION OCCURS, GET MEDICAL ATTENTION.
INHALATION: REMOVE PERSON TO FRESH AIR. IF IRRITATION OCCURS, GET MEDICAL ATTENTION.
INGESTION: DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. GIVE VICTIM TWO GLASSES OF WATER. NEVER GIVE ANYTHING BY MOUTH TO AN UNCONSCIOUS PERSON. GET MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY.
COMMENTS: TREAT ACCORDING TO PERSON’S CONDITION AND SPECIFICS OF EXPOSURE.
If you have a kid in the house, you wouldn't want him to accidentally consume/contact your OPC besides thinking of how expensive you bought it here. Also, if you like eating banana leaf rice with your bare hands/fingers... wear gloves-la :rofl: So I keep all my chemicals away and stashed off somewhere safe and ventilated.

I prefer to stand neutral on brand standpoint as I am not selling or peddling any detailing stuff. Until you try other brands with a MSDS, saf-er... you won't know of it's ability and performance :hmmmm:
 

KrisMas

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Wanna see part of my family of cleaners/degreasers together.....



And my unscientific and non-professional conclusion is the DG Ultimate Orange to be the 'safest' cleaner/degreaser....though it's not necessarily the best.

Cheers.
 
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jonlsl

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Wanna see part of my family of cleaners/degreasers together.....



And my unscientific and non-professional conclusion is the DG Ultimate Orange to be the 'safest' cleaner/degreaser....though it's not the best.

Cheers.
Wah!!! Don't tell me that is all your degreasers and cleaners ah, lagi gallon size?!! Haha you have DG UO also. You said "DG Ultimate Orange to be the 'safest' cleaner/degreaser" should be also the nicest smelling also right. hahahaha. Went and check out the MSDS and the hazardous chemical listed in there is also use in food. D-Limonene wasn't listed in the MSDS but we know where that comes from.

I think I should go and get some to try.
 

ShowTime

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Krismas,

Mind sharing with us which is the the MOST POWERFUL(cleans with minimal/no agitation)? Wheel Brightener?
 

KrisMas

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Smell like concentrated orange juice, even has almost the same colour....dangerous to keep inside the house wooo.

And....errr....that's not really 'all of it', they're just the ones that are worth mentioning...hehehe....

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

Krismas,

Mind sharing with us which is the the MOST POWERFUL(cleans with minimal/no agitation)? Wheel Brightener?
Depends on what you're trying to clean and on what surface. Some of these chemicals are designed to do a specific job so it can be good on one thing but only works so-so on another. Those products which are all-purpose...well...like the saying goes: "Jack of all trades but master in none".

If you want 'Jack of all trade'....stick with what you have, which is OPC or other branded 'multi' cleaner.
 
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KrisMas

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Wah still got some more!
Yeah...I got a little more stashed away somewhre....somewhere. Oh...you want cheap AND effective APC? Check this one out (this is an old pics I found stashed away somewhere...somewhere).



That 1 1/2 litre bottle can make 15 gallons man......
 

ShowTime

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Whatever we enthusiast use, please consider what kind of product we will be using on rides we detail(ours or others), the love ones around us when we store such chemical in the home(especially have old folks & little children) and to the environment.

I know a seller wanna sell me this cheap 500ml super thick+packs a punch crap for less than RM10. I say to myself this crap will NEVER be near my home. Who knows what kind of gases might be leaking from that bottle? Not even a single instruction/dilution ratio/MSDS!

He mainly sell it to car washes... sad to hear that but true.

 

KrisMas

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We enthusiasts would NEVER use that.....but I'd be interested to test it out. Who knows, that could be a re-bottled branded item that the guy brought in by the barrel and decided to re-bottle it and sell it for cheap cheap......

Looks quite similar to Malco Red Thunder by the way......
 
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kc2

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True KC. I noticed that some harsh degreaser/multi cleaner also does have a strong toxic smell that also makes working environment more unpleasant & requires to wear face mask. OPC has a milder scent & also makes me feel more comfortable using it after reading their MSDS(Material Safety Data Sheet).

Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean always my preferred multi cleaner. Has the punching power of harsh degreaser/multi cleaner with the minimal health risk involved which I believe is very important because I will be storing it in the house.

The heart of this man is wonderful & transparently displayed at his inventions


look at just his awesome Green Eco Friendly Alien's No rinse wash (aka ONR)

unlike all other car shampoo soapy surfactants to wash off into the storm drains, where as No Rinse™ Wash & Shine does not require rinsing at all (with just 7.5 litre water clean a whole car ) saves resources & minimised green house effect



Just recalled this from my firefox bookmark.

Let Dr. David Ghodoussi and Mike Phillips at the Show Car Garage Studio at Autogeek.net to further explain. They say once better we say 10+ times.

Live Broadcast - Optimum Detailing Class at Autogeek's 6th Annual DetailFest - YouTube

For those who just want to know whether Optimum Power Clean/Alien Clean WILL ETCH the paint or not. See video @ 0:13:50


Daniel & the staff of the TM car wash

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------


I echo again


Just show me your work

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------

do check out what auto geek says about Alien Clean

Click here direct access to Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
 

eohl79

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Oh got to love DG ultimate orange degreaser. Use it for cleaning interior carpets, rims, wheel wells, arches, etc. Price very reasonable too compared to OPC. Does not pack as much punch as compared to other degreasers but very suitable for maintenance. This one I can assure you is paint safe. D-limonene is also used in lots of paint safe tar removers such as Osren latest premium tar remover and CarPro tarX.

Haven't seen a prosumer degreaser that is acid based. BTW, Megs wheel brightener is meant for wheels/rims in specific brake dust with iron filings. It is not a degreaser. Just like Dodo mellow yellow which is also acid based. Tried OPC before on those and it is not very effective and just a waste of product. CarPro ironX works great on heavy brake dust filings.

Must agree with bro Krismas that we enthusiasts will never try all those no brand cheap degreasers.
 

ShowTime

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Oh got to love DG ultimate orange degreaser. Use it for cleaning interior carpets, rims, wheel wells, arches, etc. Price very reasonable too compared to OPC. Does not pack as much punch as compared to other degreasers but very suitable for maintenance. This one I can assure you is paint safe. D-limonene is also used in lots of paint safe tar removers such as Osren latest premium tar remover and CarPro tarX.

Haven't seen a prosumer degreaser that is acid based. BTW, Megs wheel brightener is meant for wheels/rims in specific brake dust with iron filings. It is not a degreaser. Just like Dodo mellow yellow which is also acid based. Tried OPC before on those and it is not very effective and just a waste of product. CarPro ironX works great on heavy brake dust filings.

Must agree with bro Krismas that we enthusiasts will never try all those no brand cheap degreasers.
Sounds great but based on autogeek. It didn't mention about DG Ultimate Orange to be PAINT SAFE! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Duragloss Ultimate Orange (UO) #461

Optimum Power Clean All Purpose Cleaner 17 oz. New & Improved!

I'm no chemist so if the manufacturer doesn't claim it can do this and that. I don't dare to do it. Better be safe than sorry later.
 

Veloc

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No matter what products, there is one thing that KC reminded me. I use to hang polishing MFs and sponges and pads in my aircond room (where I sleep) overnight because they dry fast. The issue of VOCs slipped my mind. It is better to keep these stuff away, outside the house as they gradually release VOCs over time. Even Optimum products are VOC compliant, but little exposure over long term is also not good. There are some products that I have to keep indoor, so what I do now is keep them all in big containers to contain whatever fumes that is leaked out.

---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------

P.S. - There is a difference between a person asking for advice and one that already made up his mind and just looking for people to agree with him :burnout:
 
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KrisMas

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No matter what products, there is one thing that KC reminded me. I use to hang polishing MFs and sponges and pads in my aircond room (where I sleep) overnight because they dry fast. The issue of VOCs slipped my mind. It is better to keep these stuff away, outside the house as they gradually release VOCs over time. Even Optimum products are VOC compliant, but little exposure over long term is also not good. There are some products that I have to keep indoor, so what I do now is keep them all in big containers to contain whatever fumes that is leaked out.
I have to admit I have a bad habit of sniffing them. Except for Sonax Extreme Wheel Cleaner and CarPro IronX (which smells like rotten egg...really really rotten egg), the rest makes one hell of an ordour eliminator and can make my whole house smells like a perfume garden. Come on, admit it, most of them do smell very nice don't they???....hahahaha.....Joking aside, I only keep my waxes and sealants indoor. The rest are either outside or in the store room at the back of my house.

P.S. - There is a difference between a person asking for advice and one that already made up his mind and just looking for people to agree with him :burnout:
BINGO

---------- Post added at 12:23 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:17 AM ----------

You guys wanna see something? Some of you might have seen this before but, what the heck...I'll throw in another factor into an already complicated 'discussions'.



 

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AndI was thinking what ar those in the round container. It's pH paper!!!! Like a scientist yo...

Well, actually i never believe that strong cleaners can be neutral pH. Those that manage to do that are not so strong and can't clean well. So its a tradeoff really. You can't have a really strong cleaner and pH neutral one at the same time. But it is fine really. Because most strong cleaners like OPC always advise the users not to let is dry up on the paint. So the moment of contact with the paint is suppose to be very short and thus no harm at all is done to the paint. The problem comes when people ignore it and let strong cleaners soak on the paint :biggrin:
 

KrisMas

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You got that right. Our cars paintwork are really much tougher than we give them credit for. So, to generalize, it's not the products that harmful to the paint, it's the person using it. Same thing goes with food: it's not the food that make us fat, it's what we eat.....

Anyway, the pH level is just part of the whole chemical reaction process thingy and we can't really conclude how strong a cleaner they are based on that alone. But it does play a certain role in choosing which product to do what.

---------- Post added at 08:45 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:44 AM ----------

Oh....and I'm no scientist....just pretending to be one....hahahaha....
 

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Hi guys,

This thread has gone way out of topic, let's keep it clean instead of Brand X vs. Brand Y. Peace all detailers :)

Closed.
 
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