350z is not an ideal car for track?

Chiba Kooji

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From What i know, the fairlady that goes into SuperGT is no longer fairlady except the look.


erm
actually wat i noe is
VQ35DE is quite similar to VQ30DETT
same block, same degree(means tat u can bot on turbo and change inside piston u can do 470bhp also)
the diff is piston, ignition, twin turbo, ECU and CC some kind like tat
actually VQ35DE and VQ30DETT is the same period product but one for selling on street car and the other one is for GT Race



ya, same opinion wif u abt tat Z33 having a prob facing the G-force in cornering
even braking, car head will feel like press down heavily
if the absorber more hard may be will decrease tis kind of matter but just decrease, it all depend on our driving speed and attitude



PS: suddenly I think tat, may be Heel and Toe can decrease the G-force, I try many times already, feel really good. But burn my brake pad already... may be u can try in track, dun same like me do heel and toe on the road everyday.
 
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gobiz

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My latest finding shows that 350z power-weight ratio is NOT a problem. See table attached.

Data compiled from:
1. carfolio.com
2. fastestlaps.com
3. Wikipedia.com
Yes, but I'm pretty sure your friends are running quite a bit above the standard quoted power.

I've never been on a track myself, but I've heard one of the most important but also most neglected thing for quick times are tyres.

Hope to try my car at Sepang too one day... mine is 19 year old car - very old. :slug:
 

ysl

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Yes, but I'm pretty sure your friends are running quite a bit above the standard quoted power.

I've never been on a track myself, but I've heard one of the most important but also most neglected thing for quick times are tyres.

Hope to try my car at Sepang too one day... mine is 19 year old car - very old. :slug:
Agree! actually traction is what handling all about, and tire plays the most important part in traction. Anyone knows what Semi Slick or slick tire available in Malaysia for 19" wheel?
 

gobiz

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Track dudes over here are crazy about Toyo R888s...wonder how much they are in Msia.
 

bladerunner

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To sum up this topic in a nutshell, the Z is not ideal but worthy of being in a circuit... perhaps it is the "Nut" behind the wheel (aka driver) that may not be ideal for circuit racing.
 

ysl

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To sum up this topic in a nutshell, the Z is not ideal but worthy of being in a circuit... perhaps it is the "Nut" behind the wheel (aka driver) that may not be ideal for circuit racing.
How can this guy out of no where come in to conclude our discussion?
 

[PIMPIN]

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Z problem's that mentioned above can be solved easily.

Brake - Change to Brembo or other after market caliper, racing brake pad and rotors
Underpower - install supercharger or turbo
Speedcut - install SLD or reflash ECU.
Handling - change antiroll bar and suspension.
Brakes are a definite must. I've used Endless 6pot/4pot on two cars already and although they are a bit pricey they are well worth it. Increasing power in an NA engine by way of forced induction would of course involve supporting mods. Don't overlook fueling, cooling and oiling for example. And this covers fuel pump, injectors, fuel regulator, oil cooler, intercooler, oil pump, sump upgrade etc etc. The list can go on and on.

If you were serious, you'd definitely go for an aftermarket ECU which I know you already have.

Good information from you. I think besides engine, Z33 handling need to be improved a lot for track purpose. I have replaced mine with Cusco antiroll bar and Tein Mono Flex suspension system, but still there a lot of body roll during corner, probably is because the car is too heavy. Anyone have other suggestion for me to improve further?

Hard to find Manual Z33 in Penang as well, and I suppose hard to find manual Z33 everywhere in Malaysia.
I took handling seriously and my STI had multiple bars/braces from strut bar to undercarriage bars, another three in the boot, etc all from Cusco. I even ordered a Cusco rollcage but never got aroung to installing it.

When it comes to suspension, I've used the same make and model in three cars so far which is the TEIN Mono Flex with EDFC and I feel they are worth the money especially given the in car adjustment which comes in handy when I go from town driving onto the highway or vice versa.

Expect to pay close to 10k for the Cusco parts if you wanted something like what I had in the STI. Suspension I estimate about 7k or so with the EDFC.

Agree! actually traction is what handling all about, and tire plays the most important part in traction. Anyone knows what Semi Slick or slick tire available in Malaysia for 19" wheel?
The only time I used 19" tires were on the 350z and they were terrible Falkens FK452s. Both the GTR and STI came from Japan with semi-slick tires but they were in 18 and 17 inches respectively. The GTR had Bridgestone RE55S and for I can't recall at this moment what tires the STI came with but it was a V9 Spec C. I ran Falken RT-615s on both cars with the STI upgraded to 18s to clear the brakes. Expect to pay about 1k+ per tire but don't bother driving in the rain when you've got 60-70% left or expect it to last 10,000kms. But grip was phenomenal in the dry especially when new and you've given them a chance to warm-up. In the end, I swapped to Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD for the GTR simply for the higher speed rating.

So basically, if you have these basic mods there is no reason why the 350z cannot be driven hard although I'm not a track person myself as I'm obviously demented hence my inclination towards Wangan style top speed runs. :stupid:

Don't play down a Z, Z is good for its own purpose. If you compare (stock or almost stock) Z to outright track cars (stock or almost stock) like Civic Type R, WRX and Evo, you would definately be disappointed.

Stock Z is built and marketed as a Luxury Sports Car, it is
- Heavier ~1600 KG, compare to 1200-1500 KGs for the above listed track cars
- Lower Power to Weight ratio
- RWD compared to the 4 or FWD for the above listed track cars
- Taller gear ratio
- Handling compromised slighty for comfort compared the above listed track cars

You can configure your Z to be more trackable to get good track time at SIC, comparable to WRX/EVO in your league but you will need to do a lot more and cost a lot than just changing to manual trans.

and BTW I strongly believe one reason why there are few reason why there are less Z in SIC, and one of the reason is

It is less affordable to track a Z.
Since when were Evos and WRXs track cars? What happened to rallying then? I personally have never owned an Evo though but I can tell you that a stock WRX does not handle that well but that's just my experience. But what I can tell you is that it's definitely not a track ready car.

Secondly, your weight estimate for the 350Z is about 150-200kgs off. That's a huge difference.

Thirdly, what makes you think that a 4WD is quicker round the track compared to a RWD? If that were the case, surely all track cars would run in 4WD and understeer into the crowd. Why do you think GTRs run primarily in RWD mode and the ATTESA only transfers power to the front wheels when rear wheels lose traction but only wheels are straight? They never run in 4WD in corners. Basically if the car is turning more than 10 degrees, its purely RWD. Why? Because its obviously faster.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you.

How can this guy out of no where come in to conclude our discussion?
Don't mind him; 10 posts doesn't buy much credibility these days. :biggrin:
 

^pomen_GTR^

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actually theres a lot of factor for the Z due to underperforming...

-suspension setup(go for bigger/thicker anti-roll bar with slight increase of spring rate) <<improve handling

-tyre..u might need to downgrade fo 18inch tyre...have better tyre choice...and making the car more agile

-brakes..as stated above

-engine power..u can always upgrade n/a or go for BOT/BOS theres a lot supercharger in the market available for Z....

-weight...as we know..this also play major role....in order to cut laptime....weight reduction was much apreciated..improve acceleration and braking...as well as handling....removing carpet,unsude item from the boot,remove rear compartment,light weight rims and so on....

-cooling system..radiator and oil cooler is a must to endure hot harsh driving

and finally...the controller itself (driver)...need a lot of proper training on braking point,angle,acceleration point,racing line,throttle and brake work,shifting,weight transfer,steering work,and most important..brave enough to be daredevil during time attack.... :adore:
 

luqae

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YouTube - 350Z Challenge - Paradigit-ELE Rally 2010

in europe 350z are use widely in rallying so i doubt that its no a great car for circuit, maybe its malaysia mentality on always blaming the car.

and [PIMPIN] the for what i know reason for circuit car are not using 4wd are because of weight and practicality, its known that 4wd provide better handling and traction, but because of weight regulation its unpractical to fit a 4wd as they will gain disadvantage. 4wd have been proven in F1 and indy car, but because of regulation they opt not to use 4wd as again because of weight. a 4wd handle much better than 2wd in any circumstances its proven. google it ;)

and the fact is a GTR outrun a porshe GT2 in nurburing show 4wd is better handling and have better traction than 2wd.
 

ysl

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Thanks PIMPIN, you make the thread alive again after that 5hp runner concluded me down.

Not many people like to talk about Z-power, or pushing its limit. I feel this car was wrongly focused so far as most people are talking about its look, bodykit & etc.. and therefore i started this thread to invite Z PERFORMANCE lovers to come to discuss about it.

This car can be very fast on track, but a lot of handling problem.

Since we are talking about overall performance, don't mind share with you (not showoff, it is purely data for discussion) My Z33 fastest record in Sepang is 2:33, drove by my instructor on half botak Bridgestone RE11 in July. When he pit in, he also says about under and oversteer, too many.

Since then, am focus on handling problem, no more engine mod.
 

Edwintst

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YSL : Hey...i'm a Z33 manual too in Penang. I have another friend too @ Penang w Z33 manual :) Mine : All 100% stock condition. Looking forward to add in mods very very soon....got penang kaki in Penang? Can arrange for sepang track day meetup..
 
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BadBoyBen

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Thanks PIMPIN, you make the thread alive again after that 5hp runner concluded me down.

Not many people like to talk about Z-power, or pushing its limit. I feel this car was wrongly focused so far as most people are talking about its look, bodykit & etc.. and therefore i started this thread to invite Z PERFORMANCE lovers to come to discuss about it.

This car can be very fast on track, but a lot of handling problem.

Since we are talking about overall performance, don't mind share with you (not showoff, it is purely data for discussion) My Z33 fastest record in Sepang is 2:33, drove by my instructor on half botak Bridgestone RE11 in July. When he pit in, he also says about under and oversteer, too many.

Since then, am focus on handling problem, no more engine mod.
2:33 in Sepang is a VERY good time and I think already tells everyone whether the car is good on a track or not.

:driver:
 

Edwintst

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2:33 in Sepang is a VERY good time = TOTALLY AGREE.In fact it's VERY VERY GOOD
 

[PIMPIN]

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YouTube - 350Z Challenge - Paradigit-ELE Rally 2010

in europe 350z are use widely in rallying so i doubt that its no a great car for circuit, maybe its malaysia mentality on always blaming the car.

and [PIMPIN] the for what i know reason for circuit car are not using 4wd are because of weight and practicality, its known that 4wd provide better handling and traction, but because of weight regulation its unpractical to fit a 4wd as they will gain disadvantage. 4wd have been proven in F1 and indy car, but because of regulation they opt not to use 4wd as again because of weight. a 4wd handle much better than 2wd in any circumstances its proven. google it ;)

and the fact is a GTR outrun a porshe GT2 in nurburing show 4wd is better handling and have better traction than 2wd.
I don't know about 350Zs in Europe as I don't live there but I haven't seen a 350Z competing in the WRC yet; although I'm don't follow every single event I have been to watch a few times. The trend that is apparent to me at least is that rally cars are getting shorter in terms of wheelbase; like the current STI. Look at the other manufacturers; most of them are pretty much what I'd call a 'hot hatch'. It's guess perhaps the 350z is used in other forms or levels of rallying but not in the WRC which is the pinnacle of rallying IMHO.

But then I could be wrong; I have only driven an actual rally car twice in my entire life. And no this isn't some souped up Evo or Subaru but a car that complies with all the regulations and is actually built to compete. It's a lot different from driving on the track or even on the road that's for sure.

Yes, I agree with you that 4WD systems are heavy. But full time 4WD cars understeer which makes them slower around corners. Traction is obviously fanstastic especially when launching etc; but cornering speeds are would be lower. But this is only IMHO based on my V9 STI Spec C.

As for the GTR being faster than the Porsche around the 'Ring. Well, as I've mentioned before GTRs are not full time 4WDs like a Subaru or Evo. The transfer case varies the amount of power distributed between the front and rear wheels. Obviously the latest GTR (which I don't own) uses a far more advanced ATTESA system. So the torque split is more advanced and happens much faster. What I'm saying is that, its not going through those turns as a 4WD car usually does.

Even the R33 ATTESA is 100 times faster than the R32 and if I'm not mistaken the R34 has an ATTESA 1000 times faster than the R32. What I mean is how fast the computer is able to detect loss of traction and then distribute the power accordingly to all 4 wheels. The only thing that the R35 does not have is the HICAS system but that's for another day.

Btw, my figures for the R32 maybe slightly off but its pretty much slower than an R33s. I have never had the chance to own an R32 but I do have an R34GTR V-Spec II now, and I had an R33 about 8-9 years ago.

Again, there maybe some discrepancies from what Google tells you but I guess my experiences or anyone else's can ever be the same. So what I posted in response to ysl is based on what I've encountered and I've never driven an Indy nor an F1 car; I doubt you have either nor do I follow their changing regulations.

Thanks PIMPIN, you make the thread alive again after that 5hp runner concluded me down.

Not many people like to talk about Z-power, or pushing its limit. I feel this car was wrongly focused so far as most people are talking about its look, bodykit & etc.. and therefore i started this thread to invite Z PERFORMANCE lovers to come to discuss about it.

This car can be very fast on track, but a lot of handling problem.

Since we are talking about overall performance, don't mind share with you (not showoff, it is purely data for discussion) My Z33 fastest record in Sepang is 2:33, drove by my instructor on half botak Bridgestone RE11 in July. When he pit in, he also says about under and oversteer, too many.

Since then, am focus on handling problem, no more engine mod.
I think the reason why there isn't much talk locally about 350Zs being modified/raced is because from what I observe; generally those who buy 350Zs aren't interested in track racing nor outright power (there are exceptions of course or else you guys wouldn't have your own section on ZTH LOL) but in the US, the 350Z is commonly used as a daily car and on the weekends, they hit the track and some have impressive power too. But I'm sure you already know this as the US forums provide more information than what local forums can hope to provide.

I don't think you are even remotely showing off and I hope I don't come across as doing so either but I have to back-up my explanations or opinions which I can only prove by stating what I've done and experienced.

I'm not into track racing to be honest; but you do realize you sent your instructor out in a car with botak tires :bawling: So perhaps you could give it another go instead of using that as a benchmark?
 

BadBoyBen

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Come come come ... Oct 31st join Time To Attack and test yourself how good the Fairlady is.

I will be joining, but I'm not driving Fairlady ... :(
 

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