The ins and outs of chassis strengthening

[xbalance2002]

i been asking a friend of mine that there are in rally car... this comment is about the foam thing is not a good idea as he comment ..

our country is very high in humid if the foam when in the car chassis and maybe a in high risk of trapping the water vapour in side of the chassis day by day past may cause of rust from inside out.

if not mistaken there are some 1 do offer chrome molly tubing.

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

I see. Well, the reason why I decided to revisit the issue of chassis foam was because in one of the recent Hypertune issues there was an article of what looked like Kumeran's car having the foam treatment done at After12 (is this the proper name?) and the initial impression was that there was significant improvement going over potholes and being an older car, it DID make a difference mostly in terms of NVH.

However, does it improve the handling? This I genuinely do not know which is why I started this topic to understand ALL chassis modifications and I'm not for or against any type. I'm keeping an open mind and will read and respect everyone's opinions especially those based on experiences I've yet to have.

How hard is it to inject the chassis with foam? I really do not know how its done but roughly I'm assuming they use the holes in the chassis used when the chassis is mounted on the jig to straighten it? And basically just fill-up the cavity until packed? I'm just main hentam only to be honest. If you gave me a tube of foam and told me to do it, that's what I'd probably try LOL

I don't have any undercarriage bars from Ultra Racing and I was hoping there would be some on here who do. At least I could get some feedback on their workmanship, etc. All they offer is a range of bars for the GTT but not the GTR. Guess its due to the drivetrain.



That's pretty much what the guy said. In other words, they get a platform for R&D or for use to design and create a mould while I get a full setup of whatever bars it is I want for special prices. I'm still thinking about it and would appreciate input on Ultra Racing and their workmanship especially for custom parts as opposed to off-the-shelf parts. Because I'd be replicating other brand designs, the only Achilles heel is the workmanship. As for weight, I doubt its much plus removing my 100kg audio setup so it'll still end up lighter.

Decisions, decisions. Can only be made once I've heard enough recommendations and opinions.

Haha well it does make sense in the NVH part, like I did mention it makes the car feel more solid, but if you want serious quietness theres no replacement for good old soundproofing!

Handling it's night and day in my wagon, it feels like the whole car as uhm... one piece. Swing into a sharp slow hairpin you can feel as if you're on a ladder with wheels? HAHA I cant describe how it helps in stability , but it helped most on long sweeping corners. Sharp corners I still understeer cause of well... being a nose heavy FF , no ARB's, and moderate tires.

It feels like a ladder has been welded into the chassis . And it took the flexing out of my hatch area so im happy enough, but if I could i'd add a D-pillar bar like those satria guys.


They remove the plastic bits of your interior, like A-B-C pillar covers, mask off all the holes at the bottom except the top then inject the foam mixture. After expanding they peel off the tape, put back the plastic panels and tadah you get an injected chassis.

From what I know they DONT inject it into any water drainage areas, I dont think the ABCD pillars insides are water gutters ahaha.

But seriously guys, anybody else here using FOAM? I feel so weird being the only one replying about chassis foam .

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Haha well it does make sense in the NVH part, like I did mention it makes the car feel more solid, but if you want serious quietness theres no replacement for good old soundproofing!

Handling it's night and day in my wagon, it feels like the whole car as uhm... one piece. Swing into a sharp slow hairpin you can feel as if you're on a ladder with wheels? HAHA I cant describe how it helps in stability , but it helped most on long sweeping corners. Sharp corners I still understeer cause of well... being a nose heavy FF , no ARB's, and moderate tires.

It feels like a ladder has been welded into the chassis . And it took the flexing out of my hatch area so im happy enough, but if I could i'd add a D-pillar bar like those satria guys.


They remove the plastic bits of your interior, like A-B-C pillar covers, mask off all the holes at the bottom except the top then inject the foam mixture. After expanding they peel off the tape, put back the plastic panels and tadah you get an injected chassis.

From what I know they DONT inject it into any water drainage areas, I dont think the ABCD pillars insides are water gutters ahaha.

But seriously guys, anybody else here using FOAM? I feel so weird being the only one replying about chassis foam .

Yup, I guess what I'm heading for is the opposite direction. I've got about 100kg+ of stereo and copious amounts of sound deadening in the car as it is. I'm looking to reverse the current situation and the chassis strengthening was part of the overall vision I had for the car which includes removing the audio setup.

Don't feel bad about no one else using foam here, least you're teaching all of us something new. No downside to additional knowledge IMHO.

 

[Izso]

Autofoam was originally used to reduce vibrational noise but was later discovered to stiffen the chassis since it filled up the hollow bits of your chassis therefore reducing the chassis flex. Autofoam was originally a Wurth item which is no longer purchasable via Wurth and is unique to Autofoam distributors only (in KL it's KL Auto - Desmond). After12 offers this product called "Profoam" which supposedly is Autofoams competitor but Autofoam have fought back with their own tests and their tests showed the 'competitor' didn't perform as well as Autofoam (look at their adverts in magazines). Personally I'd stick with the much-more-experienced Autofoam even though Profoam is significantly cheaper. Having said that though, I've heard horror stories about AFs that screwed up the injections and stuffed up the seat belt mechanisms of super expensive cars (Aston Martin being the recent victim apparently) and having to compensate with a new seat belt part. So it's really a gamble I guess, but I'm guessing they've done more Skylines than Aston Martins.

Personally I think nothing beats double welding the chassis if you're looking for strengthening. Bars aren't exactly light.

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

Autofoam was originally used to reduce vibrational noise but was later discovered to stiffen the chassis since it filled up the hollow bits of your chassis therefore reducing the chassis flex. Autofoam was originally a Wurth item which is no longer purchasable via Wurth and is unique to Autofoam distributors only (in KL it's KL Auto - Desmond). After12 offers this product called "Profoam" which supposedly is Autofoams competitor but Autofoam have fought back with their own tests and their tests showed the 'competitor' didn't perform as well as Autofoam (look at their adverts in magazines). Personally I'd stick with the much-more-experienced Autofoam even though Profoam is significantly cheaper. Having said that though, I've heard horror stories about AFs that screwed up the injections and stuffed up the seat belt mechanisms of super expensive cars (Aston Martin being the recent victim apparently) and having to compensate with a new seat belt part. So it's really a gamble I guess, but I'm guessing they've done more Skylines than Aston Martins.

Personally I think nothing beats double welding the chassis if you're looking for strengthening. Bars aren't exactly light.

Exactly why I think foam hasnt caught on, if foamed wrongly there goes anything in there ahaha.

But foam is a light way of stiffening it also, too bad its so pricey :hmmmm:... anyways no regrets for it at the moment.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Autofoam was originally used to reduce vibrational noise but was later discovered to stiffen the chassis since it filled up the hollow bits of your chassis therefore reducing the chassis flex. Autofoam was originally a Wurth item which is no longer purchasable via Wurth and is unique to Autofoam distributors only (in KL it's KL Auto - Desmond). After12 offers this product called "Profoam" which supposedly is Autofoams competitor but Autofoam have fought back with their own tests and their tests showed the 'competitor' didn't perform as well as Autofoam (look at their adverts in magazines). Personally I'd stick with the much-more-experienced Autofoam even though Profoam is significantly cheaper. Having said that though, I've heard horror stories about AFs that screwed up the injections and stuffed up the seat belt mechanisms of super expensive cars (Aston Martin being the recent victim apparently) and having to compensate with a new seat belt part. So it's really a gamble I guess, but I'm guessing they've done more Skylines than Aston Martins.

Personally I think nothing beats double welding the chassis if you're looking for strengthening. Bars aren't exactly light.

Wow this is news to me. How does a bad installation job screw up the seat belt mechanisms exactly? Didn't even know such a risk existed.

 

[Izso]

If you look at the bottom part of the retractable bit of your seatbelt or in some cases the bottom bit. Some cars have it bolted into the chassis bit that's not accessible without the right tool. I think for some reason they foam some parts of the chassis near there and if they overrun it covers the belt and mucks it up. I don't know exactly how. Either that or the B pillar foaming mucks up the seat belt tensioner. That's all I can think of.

 

[cutebanana]

value for buck, i'd go for UR bars, tower bars and fender bars alone you can already feel the results. The real proper way is to strip the car and go for seam welding but this is only for really serious folks who got enough cash and time and motivation to go through it all. No use using foam if you already have bars installed if you're talking only about chassis strengthening. As for NVH, i can't vouch for foam but i'd think sound from the tires can't be eliminated using foam and actually sound from the tires are more than what we realise.

 

[markblurberry]

Well, i been following foaming for quite some time now...never really bring myself to do it tho...probably 2 factors holding me from doing the foaming

1) Foaming actually fill up the hollow space in the chasis to reduce vibration, but it doesnt strenghten the molecular composition of the chassis.

2) The after effect of foaming or for this matter, the aftermarket chasis bars - might have implication on the shocks ab and also bushes...even bearings. This the result of transfer of stress to different part/component of the car, as such, even after putting in chassis strenghtening stuff, be prepare for repair to other part of the car

Since I am driving a toyota, which is noted for its good suspension, if you feel that by driving it hard and you still feel that it's a solid drive, why the need to strenghten it? Unless you are going for lap time -then maybe you can do 1 part at a time to gauge the benefit of stiffening the chassis.

Just my tot on foaming....

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

Well, i been following foaming for quite some time now...never really bring myself to do it tho...probably 2 factors holding me from doing the foaming

1) Foaming actually fill up the hollow space in the chasis to reduce vibration, but it doesnt strenghten the molecular composition of the chassis.

2) The after effect of foaming or for this matter, the aftermarket chasis bars - might have implication on the shocks ab and also bushes...even bearings. This the result of transfer of stress to different part/component of the car, as such, even after putting in chassis strenghtening stuff, be prepare for repair to other part of the car

Since I am driving a toyota, which is noted for its good suspension, if you feel that by driving it hard and you still feel that it's a solid drive, why the need to strenghten it? Unless you are going for lap time -then maybe you can do 1 part at a time to gauge the benefit of stiffening the chassis.

Just my tot on foaming....

The foam is a closed-sell sort of foam, after it expands it get hard (LOL) like well, cement. It reduces metal fatigue due to filling out any area where it can possibly flex .

 

[Loki]

Razlan, I'm ordering from Japan the following parts for my R33 GT-R:

* Spoon Rigid Collars (including collars for the supports in the centre of the car and the type that fit over the existing rear subframe bushes)

* Nismo Performance Damper Set

* Nismo Rear Member Brace

* Nismo's Under-Floor Reinforcing Brace kit for the BCNR33

* Nismo Reinforced Steering Mount Bushes

Rigid Collars (by Spoon Sports) for the R32/R33/R34 GT-Rs! - Page 3 - GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum

Will let you know the results once these items have been installed. They should be arriving in two weeks time.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Jamil - Wicked! Could you then just sort of describe how the car handles, etc like through corners and all that just prior to fitting the parts then of course how it feels with them installed. Thanks in advance

 

[freewilly]

Loki- how much is the rigid collars from spoon?
ridigcollar.com is selling at £150.00 for r32. (surprisingly they don;t have for r33 and r34)

can u pls ask spoon how much for ek4/9 ?
rigidcollar.com selling em for £135.00 .
i want to know which is selling em cheaper.

 

[Loki]

Loki- how much is the rigid collars from spoon?
ridigcollar.com is selling at £150.00 for r32. (surprisingly they don;t have for r33 and r34)

can u pls ask spoon how much for ek4/9 ?
rigidcollar.com selling em for £135.00 .
i want to know which is selling em cheaper.

The cost will be different depending on the car make and model:

Rigid Collar set (Front) for BCNR33 Skyline GT-R = £210
Rigid Collar set (Rear) for BCNR33 Skyline GT-R = £210

= £420

EDIT: Not sure about collars for Honda EK4s. Suggest you contact Spoon directly.

 

[shark79]

checked out rhd.. they have the rigid collars ...group buy anyone??

 

[frootloops]

How's the discount like for group buys? Hehe

 

[shark79]

anyone?

 

[Izso]

What cars do they have it for?

 

[shark79]

skyline 34 33 ,350gt...pls check rhd japan for specs...thanks

 

[owtaman]

I am thinking of getting the SuperPro bushings part no. SPF2681K for the steering rack, does any one here have experience with this item ?

BTW, does Nismo produce equivalent part for this ? OE part no.5444-0P000 & 5445-05U00, thanks !

 

[bangkai_jk]

checked out rhd.. They have the rigid collars ...group buy anyone??

yes please!!!

 

[[PIMPIN]]

yes please!!!

You and me bro, the perfect rigid collar for our GTRs!

 

[WyNG]

If put the roll cage Cusco ok ar ? thanks
Sorry ya, newbie here...hehehehe

 

[Darth Evillus]

Bumped to read when I am free.