Want Speed?!! Go SIngle Turbo!! Discuss.....

[renxun]

savahn- err... i dont own a rotary. but the injectors you mentioned are enough to even run pure methanol up to 2bar at least.

frankly speaking i love rotary for a reason. its unique. the power potential, the ability to drive most on the shelf turbos, the sound...

too bad i build up my financial late than most pl. and even i buy rotary now i wont be able to enjoy it more than the old timers as i will be much more be limit by the spare parts availability. of course still can find but it will need some "xtra" effort compare to the guys during the earlier days..

rotaries can run turbos wid a larger a/r turbine housing and to4R of to4z is just a midrange turbo for them.talking about maintainence wise, as long as parts can be source and be bought i guess it wont be much a fuss to someone who can spend around 10k or more for a turbo setup to make that kind of power. dont you agree? pl say high maintainence and engine blew up easily i would say its pure BullS**T as it is only part of parcel in maintaining a high power output vehicle.

Although im 1jz user and havent blew the engine yet. but by taking out the engine ,opening the sump and check the whole engine internal every year's cost of labour, parts is more aless the same as maintaining a rotary too. i mean in order to make everything reliable so that it doesnt bog down by the roadside. for those who expect those power engine to be low in maintainence then im sorry to say no such things la... its either the person is actually cant afford to be at tis power level or he is actually the ignorant type who will pakai sampai rosak.

 

[bambino]

800HP ... dyno proven... those are not street cars. The key test of a "street car" is to take it into traffic or to go grocery shopping. The I6s in supra and GTR will make 600HP on stock internals, just uprate the turbo. But a 13B-REW... I dont think so. 450HP is believable number without crazy mods but reliability compromised.


Your injectors are not enough because you will need to uprate your fuel pump as well.

The most important is to get ported so you have enough exhaust gas to spin huge arse turbo.

Also, turbos dont "blow up". Engines do.

Finally, this whole mo' p0wah! thing can get quite excessive. The final analysis is that xxxx HP is big a bragging point but not much else. There are very few useful applications for 500+ HP machines unless you wanted to enter into Group N racing. However, if you are set on hitting that 800 number:

1. 13B-REW - port a huge monster port, I think Ah Choy can get you to a j-port and then get a spare engine... for when this thing blows up - and it WILL blow up eventually
2. Radiator - get the biggest triple pass you can find, and then get another one...
3. Oil coolers - you will need 3 sets - two for the engine in a sequential setup, one for the turbo
4. Turbocharger - a HKS T51R KAI ... but why stop at 800HP? Get a T51R SPL for 1000HP!
5. External water pump - you will disable the stock pump,
6. External Oil pump - you will disable the stock pump, Bosch is recommended.
7. High pressure fuel pump - you will replace the stock pump, and add at least 2 more lines from the tank to feed the thirst, I recommend Bosch or Nippondenso and you will need a pair
8. Extended high pressure fuel rail - your new pump feeds to this, reduces the pulses in the standard setup, you may need to custom make this one
8. EMC - get a Motech or other engine management, remember to get a good O2 sensor, and a 3 Bar MAP sensor
9. Fuel Injectors - 1680cc primaries, 1200 secondaries
10. 3mm seals... for safety...
....

if you are not yet bankrupt from buying all of the above, we can continue... with a water or methanol injection kit, the rest of the drive line and stopping the damn thing. To be honest, I dont know what sort of clutch to put in this sort of setup but just make sure you get one rated for whatever HP you want.


... I just did a quick and dirty calculation, you can buy another FD with all the mods listed above.

but i hope this does not turn into a flaming thread or comparing the diff between the 2..

as for the list i think u got it wrong... my max target is 600whp. 550 is actually good for me.. not 800whp or 800hp. btw no such thing as a blown turbo ? hmm... maybe i got it wrong.



cheers :)

 

[renxun]

cheers..... he is just suggesting. it will be sweet to get your ride at the power level u wanted.

 

[savahn]

renxun,

spare parts are still quite easy to get for FDs. Should not be a problem to fully enjoy an FD no matter your age now, its a very easy car to drive and enjoy.

Bump: Bambino,

no flames. You mentioned 800HP street cars in your last post, hence my reply. Some mix up there though, sorry. I've been doing that quite often lately.

Please note, you are very specific about WHP - wheel horse-power. Lets assume that drive-train losses are 15%, that means you need to develop about 700HP at the flywheel to get 600whp.

TO4Rs are good to 650HP, or 550WHP. You will need a TO4Z to get 720HP or 612WHP. These are only approximations. There are lots of ways to up the bar such as running boost at 2 or 3 bar.

Yes, turbochargers can explode. But I think its more likely for your engine to blow up first. The compressor housing is made from inconel. That stuff is so damn tough and heat resistant, it was used as the skin of the X-15 - a rocket ship capable of Mach 6.7 and able to reach orbit and return. Hmmm... If anything in a turbo blows up it would be the propeller fins and shaft... oh yeah, you're right, turbos can blow up...

Its best you wait for dev to write in on this.

 

[renxun]

to4r n to4z will be struggling too at that power level. unless ran on a huge turbine housing and big boost

 

[savahn]

renxun,

One difference between a rotary and an inline-6 is the exhaust volume. A 13B with a bridge-port or j-port has a massive amount of exhaust going out in pulses, much more than a 3litre I6. It should not be much of a problem to spin a T04Z or larger except that the boost threshold will be higher.

I only think the TO4Z is a minimum to achieve 700HP. I aint sure of this - just based on paper theory.

And yes, 1680ccs are huge injectors. It merely shows my ignorance really. I have no idea how to manage this level of horsepower, just the theory to get there and worried about the AFR.

 

[savahn]

Ooops, please swap the injector sizes. The secondaries are supposed to be larger.

Bump: Ooops, please swap the injector sizes. The secondaries are supposed to be larger.

 

[renxun]

renxun,

One difference between a rotary and an inline-6 is the exhaust volume. A 13B with a bridge-port or j-port has a massive amount of exhaust going out in pulses, much more than a 3litre I6. It should not be much of a problem to spin a T04Z or larger except that the boost threshold will be higher.

I only think the TO4Z is a minimum to achieve 700HP. I aint sure of this - just based on paper theory.

And yes, 1680ccs are huge injectors. It merely shows my ignorance really. I have no idea how to manage this level of horsepower, just the theory to get there and worried about the AFR.

i agree on your statement but what i meant was not the problem wid the rotary characteristic but the t04z that have limited flow to achieve that kind of horsepower. based on paper they claimed its around 700hp turbo... but on the wheel wise minus some VE drop here and there i would say its not of a very big power turbo. but for rotaries as you mentioned about the massive amount of exhaust gas generated, it would bring up the peak power of to4z slightly more as you guys could definitely run on bigger turbine housing to let it flow better

 

[bambino]

cheers..... he is just suggesting. it will be sweet to get your ride at the power level u wanted.

i'm chillin' :)

am targeting that la... time needed to hit to that is another factor lol..

btw anyone can intro me a clutch or is it better to rebuild? i am now using a giken twin plate clutch am i am thinking either to rebuild or to change... the rebuild package over here is quite costly tho.. how much is the rebuild kit in msia guys ?

Bump:

renxun,

spare parts are still quite easy to get for FDs. Should not be a problem to fully enjoy an FD no matter your age now, its a very easy car to drive and enjoy.

Bump: Bambino,

no flames. You mentioned 800HP street cars in your last post, hence my reply. Some mix up there though, sorry. I've been doing that quite often lately.

Please note, you are very specific about WHP - wheel horse-power. Lets assume that drive-train losses are 15%, that means you need to develop about 700HP at the flywheel to get 600whp.

TO4Rs are good to 650HP, or 550WHP. You will need a TO4Z to get 720HP or 612WHP. These are only approximations. There are lots of ways to up the bar such as running boost at 2 or 3 bar.

Yes, turbochargers can explode. But I think its more likely for your engine to blow up first. The compressor housing is made from inconel. That stuff is so damn tough and heat resistant, it was used as the skin of the X-15 - a rocket ship capable of Mach 6.7 and able to reach orbit and return. Hmmm... If anything in a turbo blows up it would be the propeller fins and shaft... oh yeah, you're right, turbos can blow up...

Its best you wait for dev to write in on this.

hey bro... relax man... no rights no wrong...these are discussions :) anyway yea my turbo is good up to 650hp ur right.. i was think of a turbonetics turbo la... my bro and mech poisoned me.. i have seen their site... their turbos are can haul ass serious ass man... plus they have some ceramic coating option and stuff... kinda neat imo... there are ppl who post clips of their turbonetics turbos on youtube... check it out man :)
honestly guys...is it better to have a 3 rotor instead ?

Bump:

Ooops, please swap the injector sizes. The secondaries are supposed to be larger.

Bump: Ooops, please swap the injector sizes. The secondaries are supposed to be larger.

i was thinking that... haha no worries.

 

[savahn]

20B develops approximately 300HP as stock at flywheel, this block is very turbo friendly.

If you want 600WHP, you will still need a larger size turbo than a T04R. Larger exhaust volume means the turbo threshold is lower and the spool is faster but you will still be limited by the turbo's output.

I trust Garrett - and HKS as their turbos are based on the Garretts.

Good luck.

Bump: Bambino, which country are you in?

Bump: Bambino, which country are you in?

 

[ipohboy]

WTF? 800rwhp?

trust me, you don't need that kind of kudapower on a "streetable" 13b fd.
470-480 rwhp running fullboost 1.2bar @ 3800 rpm IS enough. You will wet your pants for sure.

Consider to lighten the car. lighter means more easier to 'fly'. Means also don't put extra , overkill & unnecessary stuff/metal/dingdongdingdong in your engine bay.

about porting.. I'm not a fan of porting. sorry.. :proud:

consider WPC treatment if you want to strengthen your cutie seals, housing, plates etc. If you want to go hardcore , NRS ceramic seal also is not a bad idea.

 

[bambino]

20B develops approximately 300HP as stock at flywheel, this block is very turbo friendly.

If you want 600WHP, you will still need a larger size turbo than a T04R. Larger exhaust volume means the turbo threshold is lower and the spool is faster but you will still be limited by the turbo's output.

I trust Garrett - and HKS as their turbos are based on the Garretts.

Good luck.

Bump: Bambino, which country are you in?

Bump: Bambino, which country are you in?

from sillypore bro

Bump:

WTF? 800rwhp?

trust me, you don't need that kind of kudapower on a "streetable" 13b fd.
470-480 rwhp running fullboost 1.2bar @ 3800 rpm IS enough. You will wet your pants for sure.

Consider to lighten the car. lighter means more easier to 'fly'. Means also don't put extra , overkill & unnecessary stuff/metal/dingdongdingdong in your engine bay.

about porting.. I'm not a fan of porting. sorry.. :proud:

consider WPC treatment if you want to strengthen your cutie seals, housing, plates etc. If you want to go hardcore , NRS ceramic seal also is not a bad idea.

first and formost, is the wpc treatment available in msia ?

 

[ipohboy]

first and formost, is the wpc treatment available in msia ?

Malaysia? I don't think so. But if you really want it you could ask Makers Racing japan Akira Harada for more infos.

 

[kk13]

any one know how much horse a T04E is capable of? and it is a good turbo?

 

[RERider]

little brother of TO4R also depend on the A/R and housing

You wanna get one? better keep the TO4R and refine the tuning