Originally posted by BoatOwner+Apr 24 2005, 17:25 --><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BoatOwner @ Apr 24 2005, 17:25 )</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-KLGUY@Apr 23 2005, 19:26
no different… Jim Russell driving school in Canada & Nigel Mansell driving school r da same…
I think comparing to one of the first performance driving and race schools that run their own race series (jim russell), a school that has taught (in their race courses for which they use single seater race cars) drivers such as Gilles Villeneuve, Jacques Villeneuve, Emerson Fittipaldi, Jimmy Vasser, Greg Moore, Jenson Button, Jan Magnussen, Ralph Firman, and a bunch more is a bit of a stretch.
Their performance driving school, which you say is no different costs about RM1300 for a one day course that runs from 8am-4/5pm or so (total track time probably 1.5-3hrs per driver), and there will not be ANY other cars on track, exclusive use of the track is for the school. Helmets are provided, everyone knows the schedule of events before arriving at the track, drivers are arranged into groups according to their capabilities (whereas here we have all drivers on course at the same time with all sorts of other track day drivers out on track). There are classroom lessons before the driving. One-on-one instructors.
I'm not saying this proposed course isn't a good thing, it is.... but i wouldn't go saying it is the same thing as Jim Russell.
I agree with fordrunger that there doesn't seem to be a lot of info available for drivers interested.... U-Earn, there is not much point in replying to queries by PM as other interested posters don't get to see your replies. I'm sure most participants have the same questions.
For example some things i would like to know if i was interested:
1.Do you provide helmets to use? Are they snell certified?
2.when you say "Its also a procedure to obtain a race licence for car. " what do you mean, is the course organised in cooperation with AAM? To get a car racing licence all i have to do is join a club such as the sepang motorsports club, go get my medical checkup, walk over to AAM give them a few photos drop off ~RM250 answer a few questions and i'm done. I can't imagine it would be a discount for an AAM licence as RM200 is insurance costs.
3.will there be a classroom session before the event to teach racing lines, braking techniques, throttle application, gear chaning etc.? Or do we just go out on track and get taught on an ad-hoc basis?
4.What good is the certificate provided? Is it just for me to hang on my wall or do is there any other use?
5.How many instructors do you have (will it be one-on-one)? Do all of them have experience as being instructors (i assume they do since you said "professional instructors")?
6.Will you have timing equipment?
7.Any insurance or drivers are fully responsible for all damages? If the instructor drives the participants car and damages it who is resposible for damage costs - how about if the instructor drives the participants car and fries the gearbox (pay for damages, tow truck?)?
8.Will refreshments be provided?
9.Do i need to have a full tank of fuel before arriving at the track?
10.What will the sessions be like... for example do we have 10 minutes on track and then a briefing on our performance or do we stay out on track for all three hours? Will instructors show us the line in another car ahead of us or will they be observing is from behind or will they be in the car with us? Will there be instructors beside the track at certain corners to take notes on our driving?
11.Do you have approval from SIC to run a performance driving course during the track day or is there a chance that when i show up to drive they say you aren't allowed to run the course?
That's just what i could quickly think of, i'm sure others have more questions.
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Like i said it is great that a course is being organised, but it seems there is a lack of info (half the posts here seem to ask questions about what's going on.) I would think that if you would cooperate on this course with SIC they would at least be able to provide a reduced track-fee for the participants of the course (say from 150 down to 100 reducing the already low cost of 300 down to 250). Or you could discuss the chances of arranging to book the track exclusively for the use of the participants so there aren't 100 other cars running around.
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Hi guys!!
This seemed to be a very interesting post here and these a just some of my point of views only.
I think U-earn stated pretty clearly in his/her earlier posting (05/04/05) that this is a Special INTRODUCTION Racing Course or namely TRACK GUIDE EXPERIENCE to be held on sunday track days and a fee of RM150 will be charged by the relevant instructors.
I don't think this is a full or proper racing course as these Proper Racing Course will cost much more and to be realistic guys, I don't think anyone can learn racing in one Sunday Track Day. Can any car enthuasist or Racer in this Forum say they can learn how to race in One Sunday Track day. Come on guys, be realistic. I think it just a Track Guide Experience like U-earn said, giving you guide how it is to drive in a track and to improve one skill in driving fast in a track.
And also one thing, I always feel that a good racer may not necessary mean be a good instructor, like wise a good instructor may not always be a good racer. For example how many famous football coach was a famous football player?? So I think everyone interested in any courses should check with the relevant schools on the experiences their instructors have.
Boatowner,
1.Do you provide helmets to use? Are they snell certified?
HOW MANY COURSES YOU KNOW THAT PROVIDE SNELL HELMETS IN MALAYSIA? I DON'T THINK ANY. I HAD SEEN SOME COURSES ARANGED IN SEPANG AND ONLY SIRIM HELMETS ARE PROVIDED AT THE MOST. RM150 COURSE TO LET YOU USE RM1000 SNELL HELMET? I WOULD THINK ITS A RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARTICIPANT TO BUY THE BEST HELMETS THEY CAN AFFORD.
2.when you say "Its also a procedure to obtain a race licence for car. " what do you mean, is the course organised in cooperation with AAM? To get a car racing licence all i have to do is join a club such as the sepang motorsports club, go get my medical checkup, walk over to AAM give them a few photos drop off ~RM250 answer a few questions and i'm done. I can't imagine it would be a discount for an AAM licence as RM200 is insurance costs.
I DON'T THINK SEPANG MOTORSPORTS CLUB IS REGISTERED OR CERTIFIED BY AAM. U GOT TO DOUBLE CHECK WITH AAM. I THINK ITS MORE OF TO PREPARE YOURSELF TO LEARN HOW TO RACE RATHER THAN TO OBTAIN LICENCE. I THINK U-EARN GOT THIS WRONG.
3.will there be a classroom session before the event to teach racing lines, braking techniques, throttle application, gear chaning etc.? Or do we just go out on track and get taught on an ad-hoc basis?
RM150 FOR GUIDE AND YOU EXPECT GOT CLASSROOM?? I DON'T THINK THE FEE CAN EVEN COVER CLASSROOM RENTAL IN SEPANG. BE REALISTIC.
4.What good is the certificate provided? Is it just for me to hang on my wall or do is there any other use?
CERTIFICATE IS A VERY SUBJECTIVE QUESTIONS. IT DEPENDS WHY YOU WANT IT FOR? JUST FOR YOUR OWN SATISFACTION OR AN INTERNATIONAL GUIDE. IF WANT INTERNATIONAL GUIDE/STATUS THEN HAVE TO INVEST MORE, GOING OVERSEAS AND PAYING TENS OF THOUSAND FOR COURSE FEE, FLIGHT AND ACCOMODATION.
5.How many instructors do you have (will it be one-on-one)? Do all of them have experience as being instructors (i assume they do since you said "professional instructors")?
I WOULD ASSUMED THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE EXPERIENCE INSTRUCTORS OTHERWISE THEY SHOULDN'T SAY THIS. BUT ITS ALWAYS BEST TO CONFIRM WITH THE RELATED SCHOOL.
6.Will you have timing equipment?
RM150 FOR USING TIMING MACHINE AS WELL?? BE REALISTIC.
7.Any insurance or drivers are fully responsible for all damages? If the instructor drives the participants car and damages it who is resposible for damage costs - how about if the instructor drives the participants car and fries the gearbox (pay for damages, tow truck?)?
EVEN SEPANG HAS A INDEMINITY LETTER TO SIGN WHEN U PARTICIPATE IN ANY EVENT. AS FOR DAMAGES ON STUDENT CAR, HMM... THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION. THIS IS WHY I SUGGEST YOU TO CHECK THE EXPERIENCE AND PROFESSIONALISM OF THE INSTRUCTORS. WHAT IF THE ENGINE OR GEARBOX FAILURE DURING THE CLASS BUT DUE TO ENGINE OR GEARBOX TUNING PROBLEM AND NOT THE INSTRUCTOR. THIS WILL POST A BIG ARGUMENT HERE AS TO IDENTIFY WHETHER CAR PROBLEM OR DRIVER PROBLEM. BEST TO CHECK AND CLARIFY WITH THE INSTRUCTORS. BUT I DOUBT ANY INSTRUCTORS IN MALAYSIA AND EVEN IN OVERSEA COUNTRY CAN WARRANTY A STUDENT CAR.
8.Will refreshments be provided?
RM150 WITH REFRESHMENTS?? BE REALISTIC.
9.Do i need to have a full tank of fuel before arriving at the track?
I WOULD THINK YES. OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE WASTING TIME DURING THE 3HR TRACK DAY TO GO OUT TO PUMP PETROL WHEN IT RUNS LOW.
10.What will the sessions be like... for example do we have 10 minutes on track and then a briefing on our performance or do we stay out on track for all three hours? Will instructors show us the line in another car ahead of us or will they be observing is from behind or will they be in the car with us? Will there be instructors beside the track at certain corners to take notes on our driving?
FOR A TRACK GUIDE, I THINK IT IS THE DUTY OF THE INSTRUCTOR TO AT LEAST SIT IN THE PARTICIPANT'S CAR TO SEE THEIR DRIVING SKILLS AND LINES AND BRAKING POINTS AND SO FORTH, AND MAKE NECESSARY ADVICE AND GUIDE THE PARTICIPANTS TO IMPROVE THEMSELVES IN THE TRACK.
HOW TO HAVE INSTRUCTORS IN EVERY CORNER TO SEE YOU DRIVING? 15 CORNERS IN SEPANG AND YOU WILL BE NEEDING 15 INSTRUCTORS AT EVERY POST WHERE THE MARSHAL STAND. POSSIBLE?? LOGIC TELLS ME NO, UNLESS THE FEES ALL GOES INTO TENS OF THOUSAND, ELSE HOW TO EMPLOY SO MANY INSTRUCTORS.
11.Do you have approval from SIC to run a performance driving course during the track day or is there a chance that when i show up to drive they say you aren't allowed to run the course?
LIKE I SAID ABOVE, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A PROPER RACING COURSE, BUT RATHER LIKE WHAT U-EARN SAID AN INTRODUCTION TO RACING COURSE OR TRACK GUIDE EXPERIENCE. AND I DON'T THINK SIC WILL STOP ANYONE CARRYING A PASSANGER NEXT TO THE DRIVER.
IF A PROPER COURSE TO BE RUN IN SEPANG IN A CLOSED PRIVATE SESSION, I THINK RENTING THE SIC TRACK FOR A DAY EASILY RUNS INTO RM50,000 FOR A DAY LIKE WHAT SOME INTERNATIONAL RACE TEAMS AND COMPANIES DO, TO DO PRIVATE PRACTISE AND TESTING OF PRODUCTS OR LAUNCHING OF PRODUCTS. SO WITH A MINIMAL FEE OF RM150, JUST IMAGINE HOW MANY STUDENTS YOU NEED JUST TO COVER THE PRIVATE TRACK RENTAL OR RATHER HOW MANY STUDENTS CAN AFFORD TO PAY PREMIUM PRICE FOR PROPER PRIVATE CLOSED SESSION TRAINING IN SEPANG.
I'm just trying give some of my point of view as I see that, there are instructors who are willing to give guidance and help to the general public to be a better and safer driver on the track with a minimal fee of RM150, but yet they are questioned with things and demands that are sky high. You will have to understand that everyone is out there to make a living. It will cost the instructors, toll money, petrol charges and valuable family time on sunday to drive down to sepang just to give you guys Track guide.. If they are not making at least a little money, then why would anyone want to go down to Sepang to provide proper Track guide to the participants? Isn't it better to just stay home on a hot sunday afternoon just to watch Astro?
chris
