R33 or Toyota Caldina?
- Thread starter defcon1
- Start date
I dont mean to butt in, especially when i dont own a Nissan nor a Toyota, but id like to know why do u take the 3S-GTE over the 2JZ?Supra is a nice car...but..for power, I'd choose the 3S-GTE over the 2JZ any time. Easier to achieve power potential, and lighter...
Though lighter, the 2JZ has torque advantage right? When modified, it is THE monster engine... tuners in Japan love them. Or am i wrong?
Would like some further info thanks. :regular_smile:
- May 26, 2006
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Well...it's a matter of personal choice, actually. Some tuners like the 3S, some like the 1JZ or 2JZ, and some will swear by the 4A. It all depends on what kind of car you are building.
For sprints, I'd agree that the 2JZ is a superb engine. The combination of 6 cylinders and short stroke makes it a potential torque monster. However, the high cubic capacity also means that it is actually a little more difficult to match and tune a turbocharger...or two, as is the configuration in the stock motor. Also, when talking about cars, it's all about power to weight ratio. And the power to weight ratio potential of the 2JZ is a little lower than the 3S. For us street enthusiast, also important would be the $/hp ratio, which is rather high for this motor.
For all round performance, the 3S is preferred. Being 2L or 2.2L (stroked), it's an easier motor to prepare and to tune to high hp's. 400+ bhp is easy, 600+ bhp's is just a little more cash. It's also lighter and is capable of fitting into a variety of chasis'. You also have the option of the full 4WD gearbox, or marrying it to a 3S-FE gearbox (Camry 2L or 2.2L, year 1994-97, I think). Another nice thing is that the head was designed and made by Yamaha for race applications. When tested, the flow was virtually impossible to improve further.
If you want a quick, nippy, high torque motor without the problems of a turbocharger, then the 4A-GE or 4A-GZE would be the motor for you. Fit in more aggressive cams and adjustable cam gears (Blitz 272 degree cam shafts are still considered street driveable), a spot of porting and polishing, uprated fuel system and an aftermarket ecu...and you will have a nice, efficient 250 bhp's (from a 4A-GE...the GZE comes with a supercharger).
But, at the end of the day, this is a personal opinion. And you will find as many opinions as there are tuners out there.
As a matter of interest...
a) Toyota's Formula 4 Kart car runs on a 4A-GZE revving at 15k rpm.
b) Toyota's Supercar Supra runs on a 3S-GTE.
c) In Japan, tuners have managed to get the 3S up to 1,000 bhp.
d) In Australia, a 3S-GTE powered MR2 was brought up to 750 bhp with just off the shelf upgrades.
For sprints, I'd agree that the 2JZ is a superb engine. The combination of 6 cylinders and short stroke makes it a potential torque monster. However, the high cubic capacity also means that it is actually a little more difficult to match and tune a turbocharger...or two, as is the configuration in the stock motor. Also, when talking about cars, it's all about power to weight ratio. And the power to weight ratio potential of the 2JZ is a little lower than the 3S. For us street enthusiast, also important would be the $/hp ratio, which is rather high for this motor.
For all round performance, the 3S is preferred. Being 2L or 2.2L (stroked), it's an easier motor to prepare and to tune to high hp's. 400+ bhp is easy, 600+ bhp's is just a little more cash. It's also lighter and is capable of fitting into a variety of chasis'. You also have the option of the full 4WD gearbox, or marrying it to a 3S-FE gearbox (Camry 2L or 2.2L, year 1994-97, I think). Another nice thing is that the head was designed and made by Yamaha for race applications. When tested, the flow was virtually impossible to improve further.
If you want a quick, nippy, high torque motor without the problems of a turbocharger, then the 4A-GE or 4A-GZE would be the motor for you. Fit in more aggressive cams and adjustable cam gears (Blitz 272 degree cam shafts are still considered street driveable), a spot of porting and polishing, uprated fuel system and an aftermarket ecu...and you will have a nice, efficient 250 bhp's (from a 4A-GE...the GZE comes with a supercharger).
But, at the end of the day, this is a personal opinion. And you will find as many opinions as there are tuners out there.
As a matter of interest...
a) Toyota's Formula 4 Kart car runs on a 4A-GZE revving at 15k rpm.
b) Toyota's Supercar Supra runs on a 3S-GTE.
c) In Japan, tuners have managed to get the 3S up to 1,000 bhp.
d) In Australia, a 3S-GTE powered MR2 was brought up to 750 bhp with just off the shelf upgrades.
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well.....i've got fuck somewhere in this forum when trying to compare SR20 Vs RB20.
In toyota's case, 3SGTE is found in smaller chassis and 1/2JZ in heavier chassis.
1JZ work wonders under a BMW 530i Chassis! Jaguar too! where torque are much needed.
It talking Engine alone. I'm sure both are good engines! 3SGTE a bit new la....
But i'm sure it's cheaper to tune up 3SGTE comparing 1/2JZ
In toyota's case, 3SGTE is found in smaller chassis and 1/2JZ in heavier chassis.
1JZ work wonders under a BMW 530i Chassis! Jaguar too! where torque are much needed.
It talking Engine alone. I'm sure both are good engines! 3SGTE a bit new la....
But i'm sure it's cheaper to tune up 3SGTE comparing 1/2JZ
Thank you very much on your insight defcon1. Both are great engines with proven potential. Ive yet to hear a screaming 3SGTE in person, but ive heard many 2JZ's ... my goodness such an awesome sound when under WOT. hehe
7th Gen 3S-GTE Dyno Charts
540.73 hp 409.75 ft-lbs @29psi
NewCelica.org Forum - ***7th Gen 3sgte Dyno Charts***
540.73 hp 409.75 ft-lbs @29psi
NewCelica.org Forum - ***7th Gen 3sgte Dyno Charts***
but bro...its worth it...dont u think?!!!
i bet u wont sell it even u hit lottery...hahaha
Agree v u Deffy...... 2J no doubt is a very potential engine......... higer capacity, wider band for additional HP, high torque but is heavy, n usually lower rev........n since 3 litre cars is USUALLY designed for HIGHWAY CRUISING.......juz like y the GTO (3000GT in US), Fairlady Z32 (300ZX in US) r sooooo famous in US intead, they din gain a gd reputation in modification in Asia region...... bcoz there's no place for them to show their potential....... 2 litre turbocharged engine is born for track use...... since very seldomly a track need Hi end or top speed.....instead, needs acceleration and response....
3S is a very nice engine produced in 90's......... i owned a 1991 MR2 v 225hp 3S-GTE engine..... with a bit of light tune done ( for mine juz install SLD, FCD, HKS PFC F-Con (older version of F-Con), HKS SQV BOV, HKS EVC, HKS plug, Ultra Plug Cable, TD-04 turbine (which is smaller than the stock CT-26), it gains me around 300+hp @ 0.9bar....... which is a worth ~80hp for the money spend at dat time...... the acceleration is pretty good......even smoked the R33 GT-R n Supra b4 in acceleration....( I consider they r stock standard)..... but since smaller turbine, means the Hi End is a bit slow.... once reach around 240km/h on Kesas hi-way nia..........Cry to our 3.0L Feilo......... but really enjoy the accel. very much!!!!!
The Garage Fukui SPL, a Japanese MR2 expert tuner, has done 850hp on MR2 in late 90's....which is very hard to achieve on a 2 litre poduction turbocharged engine at that time....... for now they even reach around 1000 hp (if im not mistaken).........n that is the potential of the 3S series..... N undoubtfully the Japs anounce that the 3S-GTE is the 2 litre class engine that can outclass the 3 litre class turbocharged engine...... Yamaha did a splendid job on these engines.... Even the SUpra oso using 3S in JGTC forego the high torque for lighter weight n the 3s engine response...... but i doubt that the Supra is actually using MR2 chasis ??? since once i saw a snapshot of the JGTC Supra in the pit which was burning at dat time......n i saw the engine is at the back since the pit crewopened the engine hood AT THE BACK to extinguish the fire....
The problem is......there is no production 3S-GTE in a FR layout.........until the Altezza arrived ( but with 3s beams engine)....... As in 90's the drift is not so hot, and most of the racers are concerntrated on the track and drag race..... MR2 gains its glory as the most potential 2 litre turbocharged race car in japan.....so did the ST185 / 205 (Celica) which is oso using the 3S-GTE in WRC....... even hardly achieve by the SR turbos..... But since then the drift race is all covers the autoracing world....... the 3S is not prefeble since no FR 3S-GTE is available.... and oso it is very hard to get MR2 control even it is easily drifted.......( its an very hard to control in cornering unless u have proper skill in driving MR's...... Me have a fren who collapsed his NSX in the past bcoz of cornering...) so MR2 is not Prefeble in Drift race......
But deffy, since u wanna gain hi HP cars y dun u choose MR2 neh????? a very fun car i swear it!!!! soooo regret dat i sold my MR2 off n i'll get one bek if my finance permitted me to modify.... n oso easier way to get performance parts compare to last time when i owned my MR2...... the parts is very hard to get compare to SR....
n the selling price oso not expensive mar..... onli RM3xk nia........ year 93 o so....
3S is a very nice engine produced in 90's......... i owned a 1991 MR2 v 225hp 3S-GTE engine..... with a bit of light tune done ( for mine juz install SLD, FCD, HKS PFC F-Con (older version of F-Con), HKS SQV BOV, HKS EVC, HKS plug, Ultra Plug Cable, TD-04 turbine (which is smaller than the stock CT-26), it gains me around 300+hp @ 0.9bar....... which is a worth ~80hp for the money spend at dat time...... the acceleration is pretty good......even smoked the R33 GT-R n Supra b4 in acceleration....( I consider they r stock standard)..... but since smaller turbine, means the Hi End is a bit slow.... once reach around 240km/h on Kesas hi-way nia..........Cry to our 3.0L Feilo......... but really enjoy the accel. very much!!!!!
The Garage Fukui SPL, a Japanese MR2 expert tuner, has done 850hp on MR2 in late 90's....which is very hard to achieve on a 2 litre poduction turbocharged engine at that time....... for now they even reach around 1000 hp (if im not mistaken).........n that is the potential of the 3S series..... N undoubtfully the Japs anounce that the 3S-GTE is the 2 litre class engine that can outclass the 3 litre class turbocharged engine...... Yamaha did a splendid job on these engines.... Even the SUpra oso using 3S in JGTC forego the high torque for lighter weight n the 3s engine response...... but i doubt that the Supra is actually using MR2 chasis ??? since once i saw a snapshot of the JGTC Supra in the pit which was burning at dat time......n i saw the engine is at the back since the pit crewopened the engine hood AT THE BACK to extinguish the fire....
The problem is......there is no production 3S-GTE in a FR layout.........until the Altezza arrived ( but with 3s beams engine)....... As in 90's the drift is not so hot, and most of the racers are concerntrated on the track and drag race..... MR2 gains its glory as the most potential 2 litre turbocharged race car in japan.....so did the ST185 / 205 (Celica) which is oso using the 3S-GTE in WRC....... even hardly achieve by the SR turbos..... But since then the drift race is all covers the autoracing world....... the 3S is not prefeble since no FR 3S-GTE is available.... and oso it is very hard to get MR2 control even it is easily drifted.......( its an very hard to control in cornering unless u have proper skill in driving MR's...... Me have a fren who collapsed his NSX in the past bcoz of cornering...) so MR2 is not Prefeble in Drift race......
But deffy, since u wanna gain hi HP cars y dun u choose MR2 neh????? a very fun car i swear it!!!! soooo regret dat i sold my MR2 off n i'll get one bek if my finance permitted me to modify.... n oso easier way to get performance parts compare to last time when i owned my MR2...... the parts is very hard to get compare to SR....
n the selling price oso not expensive mar..... onli RM3xk nia........ year 93 o so....
wonder if our deffy would fit nicely into a MR2...Hey UC...I thought of getting the MR2...but it's a little small leh...for me especially...
I like MUSCLE cars...not MUSCLE cars...
10" steering...hahahahaFit...yes.
Nicely...no!
Have to use small steering to make way for stomach...
haiya..... in japan they even came out v MR4 lar......... (4 doors MR2 that was modified by japan tuner) then ask them to fabricate one MR2 in MR4 style lor ( means MR4 with 2 doors....there goes the spaceing for u Deffy) then we call it MR-D ( not menstrual disorder........itz MR. Deffy lar....)
...... ......then spacing is not a problem......:elefant:
...... ......then spacing is not a problem......:elefant:
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