Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4L NA

[Izso]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Now that is interesting CVT quicker than the Manual , is there a video on this? I'll try to look it up too

I've been looking for it on Youtube. I think this was when the CRZ was shortly released and I think it was Best Motoring. The CVT was nearly a second faster than the 6-speed manual. Different drivers though

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Is it true that by opting for the manual box, the potential for extracting the maximum performance from the car will be slightly reduced. But then again, perhaps we should ask ourselves this question. Are we using the car as a full time track car and are we really aiming to get the best lap time/performance out of the car all the time?

If it is not a car that you purchase solely for track and maximum performance, choosing the manual box for driving enjoyment is worth it, I think. You have more interaction and engagement with the car. The performance difference is not very big either but the enjoyment of shifting gears with a gear stick, balancing the clutch, rev matching and executing heel toe is wonderful experience that cannot be replicated with paddle shifters. Perhaps in future, the manual variant will even hold more value due to its rarity.

I've heard about the 86 based Toyota concept car that you mentioned. If cars like that is released, I hope the electric clutch will still have the weight feeling of an ordinary clutch. If it is too light, it might feel weird?

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

 

[s.marz]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

Sounds like a great to drive, do you have any exact route for that? I'd be interested to try.

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Sounds like a great to drive, do you have any exact route for that? I'd be interested to try.

No special route. Those are the main trunk roads leading to those destinations. Quite narrow and twisty. May be advisable to pick a good hour before embarking on them.

BTW, the road surface of the Tapah > Ringlet stretch can be quite bad

Jalan Ampang Pechah leading to KKB is a nice scenic route. Well surfaced and fairly quite when I traversed it yesterday

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

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Totally agreed

What I'm trying to say is, the graph for manual box enjoyment sort of tapers off and remain constant as the car gets faster. For example, nothing can replace a 6 speed manual when driving the S2K, FD2R even the MINI cooper S from 0 up to a 100 percent. But in say the GT3 or anything faster however, they have PDK or DCTs that are so good, it provides a different kind of enjoyment that can only be had with the said transmissions.

I guess it's a different form of enjoyment, not one that can replace or is better, just different tools to operate different machines

But I am still leaning on the manual, just not exactly sure since I have yet to spend time with one for more than 48 hours :)

Hmmm, perhaps it the feeling of a seamless and uninterrupted g force feeling is the reason for this different kind of enjoyment in DCT transmission? I mean, the car can just accelerate without any interruption during gear changes unlike manual where acceleration is stopped momentarily during gear changes. This is the kind of thing that cannot be done with a manual transmission as there is a delay during gear change.

After reading your post, it seems that in supercar tier, manual transmission seems less relevant now. How about another question that is a bit off topic. If lets say you have a choice between a manual Golf GTi/Scirocco VS a DSG variant, which one will you go for?

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

Nope. The only curvy mountain road that I have driven before would be the one from Chenderiang to Tapah. Very narrow mountain road. I'm not driving a CVT car. Using manual and indeed I find myself shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear too often in order to stay on optimum power band.

 

[s.marz]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

No special route. Those are the main trunk roads leading to those destinations. Quite narrow and twisty. May be advisable to pick a good hour before embarking on them.

BTW, the road surface of the Tapah > Ringlet stretch can be quite bad

Jalan Ampang Pechah leading to KKB is a nice scenic route. Well surfaced and fairly quite when I traversed it yesterday

After I took another look at GMap you're right, it is! It's been a long time since I was there. Maybe it's time to get up there again haha

Yea the Tapah > Ringlet is pretty bad especially at this weather now.

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Nope. The only curvy mountain road that I have driven before would be the one from Chenderiang to Tapah. Very narrow mountain road. I'm not driving a CVT car. Using manual and indeed I find myself shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear too often in order to stay on optimum power band.

Yeah, that's what I am trying to convey. When the corners are twisty and comes hard and fast at you, it's difficult to drive a manual and remain focused on the next bend. A CVT keeps you on the power band. You can focus on avoiding the opposing car that suddenly appears from the blind corner

 

[parakey]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

After I took another look at GMap you're right, it is! It's been a long time since I was there. Maybe it's time to get up there again haha

Lol .. .if you're going, remember to fill up at KKB before heading to Fraser's.

 

[Tom]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Hmmm, perhaps it the feeling of a seamless and uninterrupted g force feeling is the reason for this different kind of enjoyment in DCT transmission? I mean, the car can just accelerate without any interruption during gear changes unlike manual where acceleration is stopped momentarily during gear changes. This is the kind of thing that cannot be done with a manual transmission as there is a delay during gear change.

After reading your post, it seems that in supercar tier, manual transmission seems less relevant now. How about another question that is a bit off topic. If lets say you have a choice between a manual Golf GTi/Scirocco VS a DSG variant, which one will you go for?

yeah, short answer would be the seamless gear transition, although it is more about the ceremony that envelops every gear change. Sound upon shift is one, sensation of the actual shift is the other, and then there's the knowing the sort of engineering that is needed to make such shift times possible. All these little details contribute to the enjoyment of operating these supercars as a package. Package meaning even the "digital" tranny which is in fact just as important as the engine these days.

So, if you can just imagine, with the manual box GT3, all these are non-existent. It is just the manual tranny, clutch set, clutch pump, clutch pedal and relevant assembly that is sitting in between the magical engine and brilliant chassis.

Now, no matter how big a manual connoisseur one can be, the big question is, can you accept that difference, or in many ways a disadvantage / disability in a car such as the GT3?

my previous reply, i mentioned for anything under 350hp, it should be the manual. These days it also depends on the specific car. Some cars just aren't enjoyable as a manual

 

[vr2turbo]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Have you ever driven a CVT up a curvy mountain road ? Something like Fraser's or the Tapah - Cameron stretch. Some of those corners are so close to each other. Not much time to shift gears and yet steer at the same time.

Cameron route a bit too tight, but love the route to Fraser those days.....

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Yeah, that's what I am trying to convey. When the corners are twisty and comes hard and fast at you, it's difficult to drive a manual and remain focused on the next bend. A CVT keeps you on the power band. You can focus on avoiding the opposing car that suddenly appears from the blind corner

In such road conditions, I can see why you say that CVT can shine over manual. But for overall fun in all conditions, I'll still pick a manual over CVT as the performance benefits of CVT shines in one point but manual seems to overshadow it in more different points.

yeah, short answer would be the seamless gear transition, although it is more about the ceremony that envelops every gear change. Sound upon shift is one, sensation of the actual shift is the other, and then there's the knowing the sort of engineering that is needed to make such shift times possible. All these little details contribute to the enjoyment of operating these supercars as a package. Package meaning even the "digital" tranny which is in fact just as important as the engine these days.

So, if you can just imagine, with the manual box GT3, all these are non-existent. It is just the manual tranny, clutch set, clutch pump, clutch pedal and relevant assembly that is sitting in between the magical engine and brilliant chassis.

Now, no matter how big a manual connoisseur one can be, the big question is, can you accept that difference, or in many ways a disadvantage / disability in a car such as the GT3?

my previous reply, i mentioned for anything under 350hp, it should be the manual. These days it also depends on the specific car. Some cars just aren't enjoyable as a manual

Modern cars today have advanced to the point that most of the things running inside the car is electronically controlled. Indeed you are right about a traditional manually controlled gearbox will somewhat be a bottleneck in the system of a high tech computerized machine. By leaving the transmission for the computer to handle, it will definitely compliment the car better than making the computer adapting to our driving style in a manual transmission. I understand your meaning of saying that the manual gearbox seems to be throttling the GT3's full potential. The concept is almost like choosing a torque converter automatic gearbox over a manual gearbox in older cars.

Nowadays, the manual option in modern performance cars is an option for the feeling/sensation of the driver instead of being the better performance option unlike older years. Logic wise, automated transmission is the better option, but feeling wise, manual is the more engaging option.

 

[Tom]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Cameron route a bit too tight, but love the route to Fraser those days.....

Genting is my go to route, very convenient, easy to enjoy and I can get there and come back in 2 hrs if needed

Modern cars today have advanced to the point that most of the things running inside the car is electronically controlled. Indeed you are right about a traditional manually controlled gearbox will somewhat be a bottleneck in the system of a high tech computerized machine. By leaving the transmission for the computer to handle, it will definitely compliment the car better than making the computer adapting to our driving style in a manual transmission. I understand your meaning of saying that the manual gearbox seems to be throttling the GT3's full potential. The concept is almost like choosing a torque converter automatic gearbox over a manual gearbox in older cars.

Nowadays, the manual option in modern performance cars is an option for the feeling/sensation of the driver instead of being the better performance option unlike older years. Logic wise, automated transmission is the better option, but feeling wise, manual is the more engaging option.

either box is never a wrong choice thats for sure

If ever there's an opportunity to try, say the GT3 in both transmissions in Sepang, then I will be able to know once and for all.
If they can both do similar lap times, I think then I would have no qualms about sticking to manual.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Genting is my go to route, very convenient, easy to enjoy and I can get there and come back in 2 hrs if needed



either box is never a wrong choice thats for sure

If ever there's an opportunity to try, say the GT3 in both transmissions in Sepang, then I will be able to know once and for all.
If they can both do similar lap times, I think then I would have no qualms about sticking to manual.

Unfortunately, it seems unlikely for our local Porsche distributor to bring in a manual variant for test. If they really do bring it in for a test drive and you are invited, please write up a good review on your opinions regarding that car, Tom. I guess you are one of the most suitable person to give a write up on manual transmission cars.

 

[vr2turbo]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Genting is my go to route, very convenient, easy to enjoy and I can get there and come back in 2 hrs if needed

Yup, because nearby and convenient, can go anytime......lol

 

[s.marz]

Re: Porsche’s latest 911 GT3 arrives Malaysia – 500hp 9000rpm 4lL NA

Yup, because nearby and convenient, can go anytime......lol

Eh sometimes the traffic isn't that good to the point you can't really drive hard... I am not an owl so midnight is never an option Usually I'll go at dawn.