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k series into b series engine bay

Discussion in 'Honda' started by dcloo, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. shiroitenshi

    shiroitenshi Senior Member
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    there in lies the hidden cost for K conversions, no?
    the amount you have to pay for the K conversion approval.
     
  2. hattech-v

    hattech-v Senior Member
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    loo, is that EK one of the drag enthusiast? hehe...
    if yes then can do welcome party... haha
     
  3. dcloo

    dcloo Senior Member
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    the ek was but the owner not ler..
    u know the orang tua where he got join the drag event just always bring sampah inside his car here n there only n always tell u 1 word your car full tank can go to 500 km ? and he always ask ur b-series engine can do thats with every things stock ... n u will just keep ur mouth shout
     
  4. dcloo

    dcloo Senior Member
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    your foreman also did tell u 100% actual price b4 u make the transplant? even a single cents also :rofl: i dun think will make it wats like ppl says u din't open the durian u dunno inside was good or bad

    then ur b series no need pay for the jpj approval ? the cost same as u d-b/k series same as long u not weld the engine mounting not like ulu ulu place or under pokok foreman......hope bro shiro will not do this for his b conversion lar...
    how $$$$$ for d15/16 covert b16/18/20= k20 for the approval
    maybe some 1 will save this kind of money This i dunno lar... since some 1 from last year started b20b plan until todays still b16a maybe this talk cxxk kind of ppl will save this money

    this was some awesome project if some 1 at m'sia can do it
    K-Series in a EK
     
    #24 dcloo, Dec 31, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008
  5. shiroitenshi

    shiroitenshi Senior Member
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    <joking start>
    Loo, funny you mentioned under pokok foreman that converted my engine that happens to own a CO2 gas analyser (I asked him why, since there's no smog test here and he said he got it from a foreign friend), OBD2 CANbus scanner, etc. etc.

    or course, working under the pokok is much cooler lah, than working in the hot sun. Naturally he does work under the pokok, like most mechanics would given the chance, esp. if the garage area is already full.
    <joke end>
    Actually he quoted me completely, based on what kind of parts I wanted to change. My total conversion bill (to a B16A, lol) came to RM98XX (including halfcut), including new water pump, rubber seals, etc. That was a couple of years ago though. He quoted me 7.5K with halfcut. Well, that's the price I paid because I went "change to new ones" each time he said "this part still can use, but it's a bit worn."

    Seriously, I liked the K series, and I've been planning on converting to K a few years after it came out, but after getting a four figure quote for jpj approval for the K (of course not official channels), and even getting a reply that modified mounts for the K series needed to go through the technical dept needed lots of work, (though there are ways around that, it won't be cheap.) Finally went to B16A because since K was not allowed, might as well go moderate, and wait till it's possible to plonk in a K series or go for built engine.

    the only big expense I see for a K series conversion right now is the wiring work, and the cost for jpj approval, not to mention the parts required to retain basic necesities like the EP3 idler pulley and bracket to retain power steering and A/C. if those become cheap, the K series will become a better choice for conversion than B series.

    B-series conversion is pretty cheap in terms of jpj approval. I'm not to sure about current K series approval though. if you say it's below 1K, then definitely the K series is doable.

    If you're comparing to a built NA engine, a turbo engine will always come cheaper. The only tradeoff, is as usual, the lag/throttle response. new design turbos help alleviate the wait time for turbo spooling, but there's still that small gap, and go big enough for big hp and big A/R, that's a formula for turbo lag. Of course, there's the anti-lag, but I doubt that's practical to use every time when meeting a traffic light. if chasing hp numbers, turbo is the way to go, but still bragging rights goes to big hp NA engines outputting more than most turbo units.

    but based on a rough est, a B20B turbo with stock internals pushing 0.5 (8-9 CR, could be higher) bar using stock B16A head is still cheaper than a K20 turbo. That's pretty much the limit for B20b units I think, unless sleeved.

    Another is management, if you strip it down without A/C and P/s, it'll be pretty cheap and easy, but as I understand it, K20 climate control is ECU based, so there's a need to retain the stock ECU?

    Well, if you manage to do it on the cheap, I bet more people will be converting soon enough.

    Well, I'm looking forward to K conversions to be doable as well. The 3500 K20 CRV unit seems pretty tempting, but when I start to think of the wiring and work involved, ouch!

    I definitely agree that K series is the NEXT big thing, as to being cheaper.. well.. that's the part I'm not so sure of.
     
  6. darkemperor

    darkemperor 15 Year | Platinum

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    hi guys...me 2 very interest in this k series...there is a w/shop in jb...where i did my convertion...they are.. can say vtec specialist since only do vtec n drag...n singaporean prefer them as well...i did saw quite number of ek and teg with k series hybrid...k24..but not very sure how they do the jpj...but all of them are on hasport..shud be no prob with hasport rite?
     
  7. dcloo

    dcloo Senior Member
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    Even K series aircond was ECU based u can change it to mechanical type wat like now eg/ek/dc2 function even remain stock body harness n the power steering u bought k24a swap hasport mounting its can use back stock k series power steering pump this will only happen tho who low/lack/sort of knowledge on k engine maybe some ppl like to act like expert but know nothing just coxk talk will be big/huge problem or its maybe they still in 90's year technology i dunno lar.. i can't/don't says i'm was expert just only sharing my 2 cents....

    b20b stock + b16a head with stock internal will cheaper then k20a ?
    i think u forgot the ecu/wiring/gearbox cost if so only for those already who have b- series conversion , turbo/inter cooler/extractor/waste gate/piping/blow valve all same price u have to paid for k/b series turbo bolt on
    if u start from 0 - turbo boost up to 1.5/2bar for k/b series i can says the cost to built 85% n above was same but if u just paid a little bit 15% extra u can get k - series engine for me its worth ..
     
    #27 dcloo, Jan 4, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  8. dcloo

    dcloo Senior Member
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    thats y ppl choosing HASPORT mounting cause its was legal to get JPJ approved
    if not m'sia boleh skill confirm u can c its happen on the car n thats y ppl paid 3k++ to buy the mounting n do something without reason better use m'sia boleh skill n get the same results :biggrin: since u have a close look on hasport mounting u c how the good finishing of the hasport billet aluminum mounting i just like prefect fit the k engine to the car n look better then stock n lifetime warranty giving
     
  9. SKYR

    SKYR Senior Member
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    bro, aloo, u are so knowledgeable!!!
     
  10. Johnny_9

    Johnny_9 Senior Member
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    K20 in EK chassis - got driveshaft issue (angle of the driveshaft is not optimum, noisy when turning)
     
    #30 Johnny_9, Jan 5, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2008
  11. evoX2

    evoX2 Senior Member
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    actually b or k can stand/last higher boosting?
     
  12. shiroitenshi

    shiroitenshi Senior Member
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    loo, you asked opinion, and I'm just giving it.

    The K series is good, but it's not currently cheaper than the B series if trying to get max power.

    Try compare this setup to a the K series and you can see why.

    BC cams/retainers for turbo 4k
    Dart block 11k
    T3/T4 size hybrid turbo (any brand) 3K
    tubular manifold - 3.5K
    B16A head -1K
    EG wiring - rm500
    exhaust muffler piping set - 2K
    Pistons and rod 4k.
    management - 4K AEM/EMS
    Transmission - 2K
    35K, all new parts except transmission, add 3K more, and that transmission is a custom geared transmission.

    (maybe you also need to tack on a few thousand for the crank bearings, rubber seals, etc, but that's usually never mentioned in conversion/engine transplant costs)

    Now at first it seems expensive compared to the K series, till you notice that it's using forged parts and a sleeved block, and still manages to cost just a little more than the K series you mentioned, and will make as much horsepower as you dare to boost. Definitely more than a K series will put out even after you pour 33K into it.

    I've nothing against the K, or you, dcloo, but for me, I'd wait for the K series (the R version, not the CRV/GSR one) to get cheaper. Afterall, the unmoddable stuff from the K series is the 6 speed transmission after all, and that's one of the best things about the K, the extra gear. I don't think the 5 speed K series gearbox is that well known for it's ratios.

    If you think it's affordable now, go for it! I'm just giving my opinion, like you said in the first post.

    For D series owners, I think the K series would be a good swap (and possibly cheaper swap), but for current B series owners, I think sticking with the B series is cheaper.

    I'm also learning as I go, loo, but I really did ask around about K conversions, and the price I got two years back was shocking. It's definitely cheaper now, like you say, but I don't think cheaper than the B series just yet.
     
    #32 shiroitenshi, Jan 8, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  13. nates_GTR

    nates_GTR Senior Member
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    As of now, I think the price for B-series are getting ridiculous. B16a block for rm2500. As honda already stop producing the b-series. I said k-series are better, since they will continue to produce it at least for another 5 year. The stock will flock onto the market. Also in term of reliability. Since the original stock k20ar producing 220ps. Plus another 5hp gain with good intake/exhaust setup. That's already good thing to start with. Plus the vtc system in k20a are really someting that ushould look into. The powerband also much more alive with k20a engine.
    What's more, the high torque in k20a make's it really good.
    I don't say that that b-series are not good. But through my experience with both engine, b18cr and k20ar. I'll go for k-series for track excursion. For drag, i'll go with b-series. At least for now. And that was because my egk20a have traction issue compared with b-series.
    Just my 2 cent.
     
  14. nates_GTR

    nates_GTR Senior Member
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    As of now, I think the price for B-series are getting ridiculous. B16a block for rm2500. As honda already stop producing the b-series. I said k-series are better, since they will continue to produce it at least for another 5 year. The stock will flock onto the market. Also in term of reliability. Since the original stock k20ar producing 220ps. Plus another 5hp gain with good intake/exhaust setup. That's already good thing to start with. Plus the vtc system in k20a are really someting that u should look into. The powerband also much more alive with k20a engine.
    What's more, the high torque in k20a make's it really good.
    I don't say that that b-series are not good. But through my experience with both engine, b18cr and k20ar. I'll go for k-series for track excursion. For drag, i'll go with b-series. At least for now. And that was because my egk20a have traction issue compared with b-series.
    Just my 2 cent.
     
  15. shiroitenshi

    shiroitenshi Senior Member
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    The reason why prices can be ridiculous is because the next step up, that is the K20A, is 20K plus!

    If the K series is only 15K, I think you'd see B series falling to more normal levels.
     
  16. nates_GTR

    nates_GTR Senior Member
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    Not agreed with this. Last time i ask evolution auto. (halfcut shop at subang) The tauke said it's becoming hard to get the halfcut. The reason is
    1. Demand from USA are increasing and they are now buying in large order.
    2. Since the production are already stop of course it mean sooner or later it will becoming hard to get. Or in economic term, demand are more than supply. So the price will go up.
    I remember the good old day in 2001 where b18ctype r only cost me 9k for halfcut and that include steering and gearknob. During those day evo 1 will cost 12k.
     
  17. D-IV

    D-IV 15 Year | Platinum

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    Demand high, supply low = ridiculous high price. Why would we be surprised?

    Anyway, DcLoo, why were you comparing prices for a K-series turbocharged against a B20B-N/A? Obviously a dumbass like me will always think N/A power is an expensive hobby to do because we are trying to extract every bit of power the engine is capable of without aid from external parts. Turbocharge the B and the K, the B is still way cheaper if everything is taken into account. And also, B-series will prove to be reliable not more than a K will if built and tuned properly. Yes the K-series has its tech advances and produce more power under the curve and i love to get one but as shiro said, i'll wait for some people to give it away to me for free or when i can afford one :p. What are we building here anyway? Street use or track/drag use?

    I was also thinking of doing the K but money wise, it isn't affordable at the moment especially around my place. Nyway, the R head is casted differently compared to the normal k-series head.
     
    #37 D-IV, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  18. Civic eh5

    Civic eh5 5 Year | Silver

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    How much roughly cost to swap k20a with d16 sohc in eg9.? Can it be less then 18000?
     
  19. hondadiehardfans

    hondadiehardfans 5 Year | Silver

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    im thinking bout the cost as well. last saw on mudah, 15k siap pasang, nearly the same cost as b16b. haiyooo.
     
  20. mADmAN

    mADmAN Senior Member
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    15k siap pasang?? wat halfcut first? stream? DC5-Type S?

    if its any of the Type R....its about 20-24K la....

    where can get 15k... halfcut alone already 14k... mountings 1k+.. header 1k+....n god knows what else....

    upah etc somemore...
     

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