How competitive is the MR-S?

DRFT_240sx

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Hi all ,

Just want to know how competitive a MR-S can be , i do realize the stock engine is weak in the power department .

However in Malaysia , whats the easiest way(cost wise and reliability as it will be a track machine) to ramp up the power? Building up the engine internals and turbo charging it or do an engine transplant from other siblings ( I.e. BEAMS engine from MR2 or Celica engine ?)

I am in the middle of finding a suitable time attack car and has narrow down my option to S15 or a MR-S . Of course the competition i'm planning to step into are the realms of 4WD turbos and FR turbo car.

Would be great if anyone with experience can chime in. thx
 

koolspyda

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Competive? How big is the wallet?

I think a better time attack car could very well be a boosted AWD platform & boosted. S15 is also very very capable in such situations.

MR layout is good but the hill is steeper given the intention you are looking for.

Driving a non boosted car in sepang isn't gonna shave timing:driver:


Probably best 2'45-2'49 average driver in simi slicks.
 

DRFT_240sx

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Another 50k on top of the car for power and handling wise .

That's why asking for suggestion is the MRS platform good enough to offer the extra advantage because of the MR setup.

would be great to hear what you guys did in the power division.
 

mADmAN

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how about a hybrid transplant into the MR-S to take advantage of the lightweight chassis?

say a K20A-R or a SR20??

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

how about a hybrid transplant into the MR-S to take advantage of the lightweight chassis?

say a K20A-R or a SR20??
 

zealless

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Hi, i owned a MR-S before, it is a great car, balance is very good. If you have 50k, i suggest you venture in to rebuilt K20A {half cut} mechanical tune {you can add supercharger, but then you will have cooling problem}, 2nd hand track suspension, lighten the seats and all necessary track part, baffell sump .. etc

or better, get a lotus ...
s1 elise + K20A = madness :ridinghorse:
 

DRFT_240sx

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Thx for your feedback guys . I'm just wondering if there is any capable garage to do the suggestion above to do a different engine swaps
 

koolspyda

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50k wont be enough for a built k20a in a mr-s. (could be done, there are a lot of custom stuffs, & probably need to top up for a excellent more reliable ride) there is 1 K20a MRS in malaysia. good engine though.

For starters while MR-S is an excellent MR platform to begin with, you need
to improve > add bracings, add track spec coilovers/suspensions, etc

engine wise you can have several options
either boosted 1zz (there are modest 200hp-230hp, even insanely (320hp++) ones but a lot of internals to changed)

swap 2zz, boost either turbo or SC. there are several 260hp-550hp ones spyders.

there are videos of such rides on track in you tube. In japan the chap whose ride is a widebodied rotrexed 2zz , quite effortlessly overtake some (ahem, 3x-5x the amount rides) cars. you need to go thru the jap forums for his videos.

also goggle south africa ITB 2zz mr-s (SA gymkhana champion who also has an track ultima car). btw its also dry sump 2zz!!

the lotus is a good base to begin too, but i guess your reason could be on the car budget.
in UK, there are 2GR-fe MR-S, & boy are they fast.

the thing is while such examples are nice, the owners are patient enough to built them with passion & $$$. If you can get an affordable 'for track only' mr-s chassis, then its alright.

A built 2gr set up might blow the budget, but i suspect it has far more torque even having a boosted k20a or boosted 2zz, & being NA it would be more reliable. No easy thing to do given the wirings & all. (so is a k20a).

2zz swap is almost no brainer now as there is availability of a reasonably priced swap kit.

getting a 3SGTE into a MR-S is also an option, but its having a heavier engine, super GT MR-S ran it for 2 seasons & had good podium results & if i'm not mistaken an overall championship too. Its already a widebody MR-S in super GT so having alot heavier engine is balanced in that. MR-S platform won 3 overall in the GT300, the other 2 being in 2GR engines

btw there is once a swap 3SGTE done on a mr-s in malaysia, & was featured in hypertune before. long long long ago issue. i've seen the ride before, first in yellow, then repainted in some dark red, then...the car just KIV'ed. no news.
 
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zealless

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Used Lotus S1 elise is around RM110K, similar to a S15 or a good condition MR-S.
Lotus chasis is much better than a MR-S on track, since he wanted a track car, not a daily use car. I think a normal K20A into S1 will be pretty fast and i don't think will cost him 50K on top of the car. But is his call, since MR-S can be a daily car. Don't get me wrong, if i have extra cash, i will buy a MR-S for daily drive, is a good car.

3SGTE is a good idea, but the car will be "fat", and since is turbo charge, cooling will be a problem. Not that it cannot be done, but you will need time to figure it out, unless you know people who done it, and is reliable. Also you need bigger wheel, bigger breaks ... etc

2ZZ is a more reasonable swap, since all brackets and engine mount available, and quite a number of people have done it overseas. Is just that celica gear box is hard to fit, since you cannot drop the gear box in directly, because it is on the "reverse" side. Can be done, just need to find the correct people in Malaysia.
 

koolspyda

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Used Lotus S1 elise is around RM110K, similar to a S15 or a good condition MR-S.
Lotus chasis is much better than a MR-S on track, since he wanted a track car, not a daily use car. I think a normal K20A into S1 will be pretty fast and i don't think will cost him 50K on top of the car. But is his call, since MR-S can be a daily car. Don't get me wrong, if i have extra cash, i will buy a MR-S for daily drive, is a good car.

3SGTE is a good idea, but the car will be "fat", and since is turbo charge, cooling will be a problem. Not that it cannot be done, but you will need time to figure it out, unless you know people who done it, and is reliable. Also you need bigger wheel, bigger breaks ... etc

2ZZ is a more reasonable swap, since all brackets and engine mount available, and quite a number of people have done it overseas. Is just that celica gear box is hard to fit, since you cannot drop the gear box in directly, because it is on the "reverse" side. Can be done, just need to find the correct people in Malaysia.
quite thru, one will be lying if its said the MR-S is track ready. it has the good MR platform but as they say the lotus is a track car made legal on the road. again being lotus performances parts can be a little premium.

the C60 2zz 6 speed is a direct swap with the 2zz engine. its just reversing the shifter linkage. (available in swap kit). I've help supervised a couple of local swaps.

The first local 3SGTE onto the MR-S was previously not well done, it took several other workshops to help rectify bugs. I've seen it, spoke to 2 of the workshops, (when the car happen to be there) listened to their issues of that transplant. also being much heavier, it was prone to snap oversteer.

mr-s is a compromise vs the S1 lotus in regaard to a track/daily car/weekemd ride. but IT can be done, as some videos suggest.

is DRFT_240sx is Mr-Ong? if you do go have plans for mr-s, you know where i am:driver:.
have you seen kenji's track red S15? i'm sure you do, his ride is always in the forefront in timing records with the other big boys (zth time attack). now thats a very capable track car.
 

DRFT_240sx

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Thanks a lot for the informative answers guys , yea I do see lots of foreign MR-S which has great potential but seeing how my budget is limited for a hobby was thinking what our local workshop can do .

Is there any specific workshop you guys go to or could recommend? and is the club active for members?

koolspyda: i saw your blog , great info and definitely a beautiful spyder that you have . Did you have a local garage do all the work for ya ? lol i'm not mr.Ong and yes i know Kenji's car but the amount he has put into it can buy 2 S15 lol ..... i'm not that competitive.

Thanks a lot again =) ............ the only reason im leaning towards the MR-S more instead of the S15 cause damn it's much more sportier lol......

I just want to own a car that has a good club culture for convoy/motorsports ..... a good club support always helps just like USA .

---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------

haha this doesn't count as with the R&D put into it . maybe it'll be a price of a GTR
 
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koolspyda

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some videos for DRFT_240sx (thx for the kind words about e ride, it's all about the passion n some spare change :proud:)

ITB 2zz non widebody MR-S, the LMP2 was undergoing some testing before official entry to Le Mans
MR2 Spyder vs LMP2 race car - YouTube

subscribe to >
Saluran MR2ZZ - YouTube

there is also a fast greek 2zz mr-s video (driving in the streets) somewhere plus i didnt save the japanese sites links. had issues with firefox browser the last time (kept crashing, accidently reinstall & deleted the links).

btw my japanese blog >
ã€ã¿ã‚“カラ】 プãƒ*フィール|koolspyda - 車・自動車SNS(ブãƒ*グ・パーツ・整備・燃費)

the said tracked rotrex superchaged 2zz is in my list of 'friends'. he has attached videos, a little patient needed to go thru his blog. & yes the famous MR-S (the Best Motoring fame) & the shop that built it is somewhere in there (minkara).

In europe, MR-S is known as MR2 roadster. may help in your search
2GR prep'ed MR2 roadster (how the car looks on the outside)
2GR-FE MR2 Roadster at Snetterton - YouTube

how err it handles on track (MR-S). thats the 2GR 3.5 V6 strapped behind the MR-S, imagine having a SC 300hp 2zz instead. (slightly lighter overall)
Rogue Motorsport 2GRFE MR2 Roadster at Mallory Park - YouTube



The lotus group here in malaysia is also very active/higher profile & they do attend many events, some truly good drivers. Slightly different group from us, in the sense.. (bigger wallet). :biggrin:

interestingly Lotus themselves just launch the 2012 Exige S:
0-100: About 3.8 seconds
Top Speed: 274km/h
Engine: 3.5L Supercharged Toyota V6
Power: 345bhp
Torque 400nm
Weight: 1080kg
Wheels: 17" front 18" rear
Tyres: Pirelli P-Zero Corsa 205/45/17 and 265/45/18
 
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ixeo

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just an opinion.. if you are building a track car, wouldn't it help identifying which track you're going? the SIC with its long straights, flowing corners.. the MR-S or a Lotus would really shine between turn 1 to 2 & 7 to 11.. but overall it would be advantageous to a high powered ride such as an EVO or STi.

and I've always wondered why Toyota did not put the 2zz in the MR-S and the 1zz in the Celica instead. I suspect someone must have mixed up the engine & chassis matching documents when they submitted it to the CEO for approval.
 
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koolspyda

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just an opinion.. if you are building a track car, wouldn't it help identifying which track you're going? the SIC with its long straights, flowing corners.. the MR-S or a Lotus would really shine between turn 1 to 2 & 7 to 11.. but overall it would be advantageous to a high powered ride such as an EVO or STi.

and I've always wondered why Toyota did not put the 2zz in the MR-S and the 1zz in the Celica instead. I suspect someone must have mixed up the engine & chassis matching documents when they submitted it to the CEO for approval.
Haha, we certainly hope that was the case, Toyota, being a big manufacturer;like many other car manufacturer makes cars for what the consumer demands. Initially the celica (zzt321) was positioned against the Honda dc5 (which they had hope to cut into that market).

The mrs or rather the 3 version/of the famous mr2 platform wasn't a must do project for toyota. The story was some rather passionate engineers within Toyota drew plans, ideas to revive the mr2 for the 3rd reincarnation. (all plans, developement work was on their own time, being passionate of it, they submitted to the board)

Now to understand this, one need to look back into the 90s, why Toyota (manufactuerer) didn't think it was worth to continue from sw20( 2 gen mr2). The aw11 or the first mr2 was a great success in sales, that time no one expected an affordable midship n fun sports car. In truth the aw11 scored a first for many car enthusiast. The miata only came in after the aw11 n built on 'such' market, created their own formula n it become the best selling sports cars in numbers n (no other sports cars even today could match or top the mx5 sales numbers)

The sw20 came when car enthusiast felt the aw11 was a little underpowered, Toyota relented. Initially the sales weren't too bad, still it wasn't able to match the sales numbers of aw11, & when the big crunch in the mid 90s where the yen bubble boiled, the last years of the new mrsp SW20 prices in US came to almost US35-40k at the toyota dealers!!! That's almost twice the amount many mr2 fellas would baulk their $$ for. I think only less than 40 units in that final year. (I think one can try goggle this (I actually read this from somewhere(pre net days)).

A car company like Toyota needed to go back to the drawing boards if the wanted to make money. The felt the opportunity would have been better if they basket it into the current celica. Yamaha was commissioned to make the (2zz) engines.

The marketing ppl n the board i guess felt the market would be more comfortable with the celica, the mrs only came by when the engineering chums felt deeply behind it, but not to the mrkt ppl. the Toyota guys didn't even promote much of the mrs after the launch. The USA would have been the biggest single market for Toyota, even the spyder enthusiast in US many acknowledge came to know of the mrs by chance. Very little advertisement promoted it. few magazine ads, even in the US where TV commercials is huge, there was non on mrs alone, a 1/2 sec glimpse of the car in their corporate toyota was about it, unlike its predesesor (I think it's written in the mr2 history/ books of, on mr2)

Lotus only had Toyota for help for them to enter the US market, since back then the were some working relationship between the 2, n since all the plans of the zz engines were already approved (edmission) for the US market, it was a no brainer.

Lotus-Honda? Well, if you read into the 'supposedly' story, when honda first approached lotus to develope n make their foray into F1 (way back then) lotus (colin chapman) couldn't n didn't do it, hence then Honda supposedly felt slighted, n vowed if they can not to collaborate...
 
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ixeo

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thanks for the insight. supposedly one were to procure an MR-S for 80k, how much would the 2zz+6speed swap cost? even then.. its not exactly competitive yet.. the best motoring feature of the Techno Pro Spirit MR-S showed that it had the fastest lap time against the S15, S13 and S2000..it goes to show that while lacking horsepower, it makes up with agility..

wonder what the specs are for that, and how much $$$ to build it.
 

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