Help on amps!

Discussion in 'ICE' started by peachmonkey, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    Hi all...Firstly I would like to apologise for the extremely n00bish question I'm about to post...But I'm planning to upgrade my car's sound system and I need some info on amps. (actually I don't have a clue about ICE!:shocked: )

    What's the difference between 2channel and 4channel amps? Monoblock? Magnet? I heard that you need one amp to power to mid-speakers and another one to power up the sub-woofer. But which one is for which? How many watts is sufficient to power the mids and sub?
    Which is better to get a woofer or a sub-woofer? Is there a difference between the two?

    Heh,actually I have a load of questions to ask but I guess this will do for now...

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Zenn

    Zenn Senior Member
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    2 ch amp - amp got 2 channels only, u can run a pair of speakers left & right
    4 ch amp - same as above but got 4 ch and u can run them front left, front right, rear left rear right. what we normally do is bridge the rear left & right into one mono channel to drive the subwoofer. this way u can save money by not getting 2 separate amps. but if u have the budget for a dedicated sub amp, like a monoblock, pls go ahead. woofer normally is smaller than subwoofer, which is 8-15 inches in diameter. in general, subwoofers can play much lower & louder than normal woofers or midrange speakers. how much power u need depends on the power rating of the speakers u buy. subs normally need 300W upwards. also pls use RMS power only, dont get fooled by MAX power.
     
  3. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    So a monoblock amp is used to power the sub-woofer? Say if my sub runs at 800W but the amp powering it is 1000W, is it okay? Will it be considered overkill?

    What component set do you recommend getting? I hav previosly installed a bochman set for my front speakers but I need to get them replaces as the left side speaker seemed to have blown. (sound is distorted)
    If I get a sub do I need to replace the 6X9's that I have in the rear with another component set? So all in all I'll have 6 mid speakers (front door pair, rear door pair & replace the 6X9's) so I need a 6channel amp?

    Thanks again!
     
  4. digitax

    digitax Senior Member
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    wats the price range of a decent 4 channel amp ...

    those cap ayam brand , are they good ?
     
  5. Fluffy

    Fluffy Senior Member
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    frm wat i know...cap ayam ones get hot very fast.and always cuts off.am i rite?
     
  6. Fluffy

    Fluffy Senior Member
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    i've seen amps like..hunter and carspec..are they considered as cap ayam??
     
  7. kyheng

    kyheng Senior Member
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    Is your 800 and 1000 is max power or RMS? Normally it should have not much problem.
    About the component is more to your budget, there got alot of component sets that cost range from rm100-3000.
    IF you want to keep your 6 X 9 then you have to add a capacitor to reduce the bass from it. Don't get confused about this cap, is not power cap, is a small electronic device. You can try to use 3.3uf as a start.
    Since you have 6 speakers and plan to add a sub(correct me if I'm wrong), you can buy a 4 channel amp for your speakers and a 2 channel or monoblock for your sub.
    For your 4 channel you can set it up by front 2 channel to power your front and rear door speakers and rear 2 channel for your rear speakers or 2 front channel front front door speakers and rear 2 channel for rear door speakers and rear speakers.
     
  8. Zenn

    Zenn Senior Member
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    for the sub, either a monoblock or a 2ch amp can be used, even 2 ch bridged out of 4 from a 4ch amp. monoblock is best when u have the double voice coil subs or more than one sub. feeding a sub higher watt than its rms rating usually will not hurt, unless your amp gain is too high and youre feeding the sub distorted signals. feeding double the rating is actually quite normal. id recommend u to get a 4ch amp, use 2 ch for the front components. and bridge the rear channels into mono for your sub. dont get any rear speakers so u can use that budget for a good component set in front. most good SQ cars do not use any rear speakers.
     
  9. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    Kyheng :
    I don't intend to keep the original 6X9 speakers. I have a feeling that they have blown out! :p That's why I'm planning to replace the whole set. If say I replace the 6X9 speakers with a component set and don't get a set for my rear doors, that means I will be running with 2 component sets right? (1-front door, 1-rear)
    So a 4channel amp should be enough to power them right?

    Zenn:
    When you say don't get any rear speakers do you mean leave the rear of my ride empty or maintain the 6X9 speakers? Coz I intended to replace the 6X9 but I was still considering if I should get another set for my rear doors. How do I know if the sub is a double voice coil? Will it be stated there? I'm only planning to get a single 12" sub for my ride.

    Btw, how do you read the rating of an amp? eg. 4 x 200W
    Does it mean a 4channel amp with each channel at 200W? So if I bridge the rear each speaker(rear) should be getting 50W? When I do this do I have to make sure the power supplied to the speakers are more than the speaker rating?
    Would MOHAWK be a good brand to go with? Or is there any other brand that I should consider paying up?

    Heh, sorry for the TON of questions...I just want to clear up everything before I actually start buying. Wouldn't want to regret later on.
    Thanks sifu's!
     
  10. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    Ack, forgot to mention this in my prevois post!
    Do all component sets come with a crossover or do I need to purchase it separately? Is there a difference between a crossover and an electronic crossover?
     
  11. kyheng

    kyheng Senior Member
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    Yes, is true a 4 channel amp will be enough to power your componenets already. Anyway how do you know that your 6 X 9 blown? Last time when mine blow I add the cap and problem solved.
    For good sound stage/imaging, the best is still put on front door, provided your car already have. Mine don't have so I put the component on rear. I only scare after sometimes all sort of lose screws sound comes out.
    If your 6 X 9 spolit is better that you don't get back a 6 X 9 anymore, unless you are not getting any sub as the bass from 6 X 9 will interfear sub's bass causing your sub's bass not strong enough.
    Normally a SVC only have a input :+ve and -ve. Where as a DVC have 2 +ve and 2 -ve.
    4 X200watt is mean by each channel is 200watt, when you bridge either 2 is become 400 X1. But normally this 200watt I think is max, not RMS, if not this amp going to cost 1k and above. Normally if can try to get the amp that almost same rating as speakers +-10-20%.
    Mohawk you can buy, if you are not going for high end and budget limited. This brand is considered middle to lower end. In ZTH some people will say certain brand is no good, they will intro you some Europe brands that 200watt RMS is cost 1-2k. Beware, now US brand amp are made in China, only Europe amps I don't know yet.
    Normally a component set is comes with a passive crossover
     
  12. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    When you say 'the best is still put on front door, provided your car already have', do you mean I should install a front component set if my car doesn't have one? What if I already have a front component set and would like to add a rear component to replace the 6X9 speakers? Would that be a good idea?

    What does SVC & DVC mean?

    You only bridge when your using a 4channel amp to power a 2 set component and a sub correct? If I get a 4channel amp to power a 2 set component and a single monoblock for the amp, I wouldn't need to bridge the amp right?
    So if say the speakers are at 80watts each, a 4 X 100W amp would be enough right? Got difference between passive crossover and electronic crossover?

    Can mix different brands of speakers and amps together? Other than mohawk what other brands should I consider if my budget is within the mid-range area?
     
  13. Zenn

    Zenn Senior Member
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    peach if the 6x9 is in the door just leave it there disconnected. if it is the rear shelf, take the speaker out but leave the grill there to cover the hole.
    to know if svc or dvc, just see it there are 1 or 2 sets or terminals (+ve, -ve)
    amp rating depends on manufacturer la, some of them just give the max rating, not rms. some just overrate their power. high end ones will underrate their amps and also give their real power from tests, like a birth cert.
    if u get a component set, there will be a passive crossover inside. this comes after the amp, before the speakers. an electronic crossover is used after the HU before the amps. used if u have more than one amp.
     
  14. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    Zenn,so basically your saying that I should only have one component set in my car right? (front door)
    Remove the 6X9 in the rear shelf and leave the grill? No need to replace with another component? Will the front set be enough for the whole car?
    So the set your suggesting is 1 component set for the front, one 4channel amp and one sub. So the for the amp, 2channel power the component & 2channel for the sub. Correct so far?

    Btw,what does SVC and DVC mean? Are they type of speakers? When you say high end manufacturers,who are you reffering to?
     
  15. DJThoRmented

    DJThoRmented Senior Member
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    It's not easy to get both front and back the same sound with speakers all around. Sound may get confused and not solid/concertrated. That is why people always suggest to remove the rear speakers.

    Don't worry about the people sitting at the back (like they're always there). Even if they are there, with proper tuning; your subwoofer will all upfront and would not disturb them and they (the people at the back) will even enjoy the music more as the distance of your front speakers towards them are further. The enjoy as if they were in that SURE HEBOH concert that they were suppose to go (he he he... jangan marah).

    Feeding more to less needed components in my perception is good coz the gain on the amp can be played less and music/power will be sufficient towards the speakers. But remember, don't look at Watts but RMS is more needed.

    As for components speakers, well some comes as a set and some don't.

    Cross overs (more called as XO) differs from passive and active. Difference is, one you can't do much (passive). The other you can tweak/play around with (active). Well as you know women too can tweak/play around with, so treat them the same or else bad karma will come your way :wink: hehehe...

    In my suggesttion, get a decent 3 way head unit (so save money on XO) and get a 4 and 2 channel amp... wah sudah main jahat... Zenn cepat eleborate... aku telah di seru check wireless nih :wink:
     
  16. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    DJThormented:
    Heh,nice signature...two 12" subs on a kid's bike. If me dad let me do that when I was 5 I would know my way around ICE by now...Hahah!

    Anyway,so if I were to remove the rear 6X9 and only be running on my front component set I would need a pretty high powered set right? What set would be suitable for my car? Say at a budget of rm500 (for the component set)

    A 3-way HU? How do I check if the HU is 3-way? Am currently using clarion player with cd-changer(from waja). Don't think it's 3-way.

    Wow! A 4channel and 2 channel amp? Why soo much? I'm just running a single component set and a sub. Why soo many amps? Say I run the component set with the 4channel amp and the sub with the 2channel. I thought of getting a 4channel and bridging it to run both the component and sub. Is that possible?

    Hmm...I always thought the more speakers the better. But it seems that most of the sifu's here suggest using only front speakers and a sub. Heh,cut cost lah like that right? :p
     
  17. kyheng

    kyheng Senior Member
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    That is correct, but for me I don't trust every single installer for their workmanship on installing my speakers on front door unless my car is an old one, then maybe I can consider it. Do you mean that there is still no component on your door and your car is still new? If yes then you can try my setup : front put 1 pair of 2 way 4.5" speakers and rear 6.5" component, get a HU with 3 pre-out , 1 2 channel amp for sub and 1 4 channel amp for speakers, pre-amp and e-crossovers no need, and the sound quality is not bad. When carrying passenger just turn off the sub and already like normall listening. Because of 2 way speakers sound is sharp so when tunning the front must be less until your rear can be heard.

    When the amp bridged, is mainly for sub only. Normally if can 4 channel don't use for powering a sub as some cheap brand unable to push a sub. The 4 channel that can push a sub is very costly.

    You can always mix brand together for your taste, but don't get a very very high amp but cheap speakers, like that sure cannot. If your budget is limited, is better that you scout around the normal shops first, don't ever ever go to high end shops, with the workmanship is already cutting your throat, then they will say this cannot put like this that one not powerful enough.
     
  18. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    Here's my current set-up. Could you suggest what I should do to it? I don't plan to do everything all at once. Slow and steady :p

    Player : Clarion cassette player + CD-changer (came from Waja)
    Front : Boschman 6" component set
    Rear : Standard 6X9 speakers that come with Wira

    If I plan to change the front set to 6.5" can the new speakers fit into the old hole that has been cut?

    I am thinking of replacing the front component set coz the left side speaker seems to have blown. If I turn the fader to the front and balance to the left, the sound from that speaker seems distorted & 'pecah'. Could it be the foam or is the speaker really spoilt?
    Btw,I've been seeing a lot of these terms around. What do they actually mean?
    SQL?
    SPL?
    SVC?
    DVC?
     
  19. kyheng

    kyheng Senior Member
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    So your door already have hole, then is 50/50, see your luck, maybe no need. Anyway what do you mean step by step? Your player only have 1 pre-out and double din. So your first step is change the HU that have 3 pre-outs one, if not you have to add a pre-amp. Then a 2ch or 4ch amp to power your speakers. You have to change some components at once as pre-amp normally bring air plane if cheap one.
    You can change your front speakers already as they are confirm retired.

    SQL is SQ actually means for own listening
    SPL is not for own listening, for outside people listen, something like you can hear it on the other street
    SVC is single voice coil woofer, is the most common speakers on the market, normally is 4ohm or 8ohm
    DVC is dual voice coil woofer, the price is higher and more powerful than normal SVC, but it can go down to 2ohm or sometimes even 1ohm. 1ohm monoblock amp will cost alot because of its stablility.
     
  20. peachmonkey

    peachmonkey Senior Member
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    So your saying I should do the following :
    1. Change HU that has 3 pre-outs to avoid using a pre-amp
    2. Add an amp to power speakers
    3. Change component set (should I use 2-way or 3-way? what's the difference?)
    4. Add sub & amp to power sub

    Any addition to the steps? :p
    If I want to have a balance of both SQL and SPL what do I need to do? Btw,the SVC and DVC refers to the subs right? So if I get a DVC sub,I'll need a matching monoblock (1ohm) to power it.
     

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