H22A vs K2xA??

aja

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zaruliskandar said:
y hattech???? ur car meh?? heheheheheh :P
i dont really know how to compare... but i know my H22a now is sakit... sooo sad...
issss...H22A sakit?.. bird flue kot. kekekekeke

Anyway, about H22A 0-100kmh sprint.. so far no komen la cause never try mine, cause my car slow2 onli. Waste petrol onli. But thru some experiences, i used to toing 1 wira turbo (donno what engine inside, with wastegate sounds some-more!!) at traffic light masjid once, nearby my house. Maybe that wira driver sleepy kot!!.

As for Prelude, maybe what Mr. Bear said is correctly la kot.
 
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semutapi

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-e f i n i- said:
hmm actually i was just asking why that drag car would go for a H22A instead of K20A. K20A can be stroked also... and theres always K24 that is 0.2L larger than H22.

besides, i-vtec and vtec, doesnt really matter right? since most heavily modded monsters would disable them anyway right?

from what i know, the basic theory is power ditermine by displacement. The bigger your cc the bigger your hp. That why us muscle car have big displacement. anyway, respect for Vtec small cc with high power.....
 

-e f i n i-

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Hmmm, i dont think its because of that extra .2L they choose to use H22A instead. One can always stroke his K20A anyway, or use K24 with K20 head.
must be got hidden monster inside H22A that i still don't know. did some searches and google and all they gave me was mainly buy/sale sites selling/buying H22A heads.
 

aja

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-e f i n i- said:
Hmmm, i dont think its because of that extra .2L they choose to use H22A instead. One can always stroke his K20A anyway, or use K24 with K20 head.
must be got hidden monster inside H22A that i still don't know. did some searches and google and all they gave me was mainly buy/sale sites selling/buying H22A heads.
hahahahaha. Meaning to say.. our old H22A engine heart inside our car is still usable la!!!:shades_smile: :shades_smile:
 

aja

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-e f i n i- said:
Hmmm, i dont think its because of that extra .2L they choose to use H22A instead. One can always stroke his K20A anyway, or use K24 with K20 head.
must be got hidden monster inside H22A that i still don't know. did some searches and google and all they gave me was mainly buy/sale sites selling/buying H22A heads.
But technically speaking, if u compared Accord Euro R CL1 (with H22A) and Euro R CL7 (K20*) inside, the conclusion that i got from my other S'porean Euro R friends is that in long or including hway cruising run, the K20* CL7 really hard to catch-up with CL1 H22A, even though the CL7 K20* came swith 6 MT as compared with CL1 5 MT.

Maybe due to the different of 0.2 & wieght, i guess. But bare in mind that most of S'porean Euro R have been stocked 'Mugen-ED'!!!

My net search previous-previously also concluded that they prefer H22A other than K20. Confius!!
 

mrbear

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h22a power mehh.. bro aja more powerfull.. hehehe .. i still prefer old vtec's than i-vtec's.. summoreee xpensive lehh..

h22a got monster/beast hidden inside.. -GREDDY -Unleash The Beast-
 

-e f i n i-

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Hmmmmm CL7 Euro-R hard to catch up with CL1 Euro-R.. CL7 is heavier by 60kg.
Hmm checked the specs.
H22A has the same power as K20A, but H22A has slightly more torque, not surprising as its 0.2L larger.
Btw, CF4 Euro-R and CL1 Euro-R are the same cars right?
Argh, i still cant accept the fact that H22A is better than K20A!!
 

mrbear

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H22A POEM:

h22a

h22a is somewhat unstable in a civic
h22a is a very very very tight fit
h22a is kind of a pain
h22a is wire type and ek is rod type so the layout position of a gearshift is changed like a photograph
h22a is a 2
h22a is 175 to 185 lbs heavier than stock d
h22a is worth more because it's more powerful
h22a is the perfect swap for that car
h22a is a jdm spec motor also if this helps at all
h22a is available in two stages of tune; the normal version puts out 149 kw
h22a is it a good idea? by
h22a is used in the prelude type
h22a is way more tuned and perfomance wise is way better than the j
h22a is a killer on yor accord
h22a is a jdm motor and not just one out of a prelude or something?
h22a is currently running 10
h22a is the best engine ever made for honda
h22a is gonna bog
h22a is 7400 rpm
h22a is a very big
h22a is kinda slow><
h22a is a good engine but it ain't gonna do shit in that chasis
h22a is on the way for this summer
 

aja

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mrbear said:
h22a power mehh.. bro aja more powerfull.. hehehe .. i still prefer old vtec's than i-vtec's.. summoreee xpensive lehh..

h22a got monster/beast hidden inside.. -GREDDY -Unleash The Beast-
kekekeke. My car slow2 onli. Where got so powerful !!!
 

mrbear

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Blocks

Block Type
H22A4 Block = Open Deck
H22A block = Closed Deck
H23A block = Open Deck
H23A1 block = Closed Deck
F22 block = Open Deck
F23 block = Open Deck
F20B block = Open Deck

Deck Height
H22A4 Block = 8.643
H22A block = 8.643
H23A block = 8.643
H23A1 block = 8.643
F22 block = 8.643
F23 block = 8.643
F20B block = 8.643

Bore
H22A4 Block = 87mm/3.425
H22A block = 87mm/3.425
H23A block = 87mm/3.425
H23A1 block = 87mm/3.425
F22 block = 85mm/3.346
F23 block = 86mm/3.385
F20B = 85mm/3.346

Note:
Due to various available piston diameters (A/B) actual bore diameter may vary

Rods

Length
H22A4 = 5.633
H22A = 5.633
H23A = 5.572
H23A1 = 5.572
F22 = 5.572
F23 = 5.551
F20B = 5.709

Width
H22A4 = .935
H22A = .935
H23A = .935
H23A1 = .935
F22 = .935
F23 = .780
F20B = .935

BE Bore
H22A4 = 2.008
H22A = 2.008
H23A = 2.008
H23A1 = 2.008
F22 = 2.008
F23 = 1.890
F20B = 1.890

Pin Bore
H22A4 =
H22A = .8649-.8654
H23A =
H23A1 = .8649-.8654
F22 = .8649-.8654
F23 = .8649-.8654
F20B =

Pistons

Bore
H22A4 = 87mm/3.425
H22A = 87mm/3.425
H23A = 87mm/3.425
H23A1 = 87mm/3.425
F22 = 85mm/3.346
F23 = 86mm/3.385
F20B = 85mm/3.346

Note:
actual diameter may vary depending on code of piston (ie, A B)

Compression Height
H22A4 = 1.221
H22A = 1.221
H23A = 1.203
H23A1 = 1.203
F22A1 = 1.203
F22A4 = 1.203
F23A1 = 1.181
F20B = 1.221

Dome Volume
H22A4 =
H22A =
H23A =
H23A1 =
F22A1 =
F22A4 =
F23A1 =
F23A4 =
F23A5 = -18cc
F20B =

Wrist Pin Diameter
H22A4 = .866
H22A = .866
H23A = .866
H23A1 = .866
F22 = .866
F23 = .866
F20B = .866

Crankshafts

Stroke
H22A4 = 90.7mm/3.570
H22A = 90.7mm/3.570
H23A = 95mm/3.740
H23A1 = 95mm/3.740
F22 = 95mm/3.740
F23 = 97mm/3.818
F20B = 88mm/3.464

Main Journal Diameter
H22A4 = 55mm
H22A4 = 50mm (1997 Only)
H22A = 50mm
H23A = 55mm
H23A1 = 50mm
F22 = 50mm
F23 = 55mm
F20B = 55mm

Rod Journal Diameter
H22A4 = 1.888
H22A = 1.888
H23A = 1.888
H23A1 = 1.888
F22 = 1.888
F23 = 1.771
F20B = 1.771

Cylinder Heads

Combustion Chamber Volume
H22A4 = 53.8cc
H22A = 53.8cc
H23A = 53.8cc
H23A1 = 50cc
F22A1 = 50cc
F22A4 = 50cc
F23A1 = 50cc
F23A4 = 50cc
F23A5 = 50cc
F20B =

Intake Valve Diameter
H22A4 = 35mm
H22A = 35mm
H23A = 35mm
H23A1 = 34mm
F22 = 34mm
F23 = 34mm
F20B = 34mm

Exhaust Valve Diameter
H22A4 = 30mm
H22A = 30mm
H23A = 30mm
H23A1 = 29mm
F22 = 29mm
F23 = 29mm
F20B = 29mm

Head Gaskets

Bore
H22A4 = 88mm
H22A = 88mm
H23A = 88mm
H23A1 = 88mm
F22 = 86mm
F23 = 87mm
F20B = 86mm

Thickness
H22A4 = .026
H22A = .026
H23A = .026
H23A1 = .026
F22 = .026
F23 = .026
F20B = .026

Note:
Gasket thickness measured after crush

Bearings

Main Bearing Thickness
Blue: 2.013 - 2.010mm / 0.0793 - 0.0791
Black: 2.010 - 2.007mm / 0.0791 - 0.0790
Brown: 2.007 - 2.004mm / 0.0790 - 0.0789
Green: 2.004 - 2.001mm / 0.0789 - 0.0788
Yellow: 2.001 - 1.998mm / 0.0788 - 0.0787
Pink: 1.998 - 1.995mm / 0.0787 - 0.0785
Red: 1.995 - 1.992mm / 0.0785 - 0.0783

Rod Bearing Thickness
Blue: 1.510 - 1.507mm / 0.0594 - 0.0593
Black: 1.507 - 1.504mm / 0.0593 - 0.0592
Brown: 1.504 - 1.501mm / 0.0592 - 0.0591
Green: 1.501 - 1.498mm / 0.0591 - 0.0590
Yellow: 1.498 - 1.495mm / 0.0590 - 0.0589
Pink: 1.495 - 1.492mm / 0.0589 - 0.0587
Red: 1.492 - 1.489mm / 0.0587 - 0.0586

Main Bearing Width
H22A4 = .784
H22A = .784
H23A = .784
H23A1 = .784
F22A1 = .784
F22A4= .784
F23A1 = .784
F23A4 = .784
F23A5 = .784
F20B = .784

Rod Bearing Width
H22A4 = .762
H22A = .762
H23A = .762
H23A1 = .762
F22A1 = .762
F22A4 = .762
F23A1 = .609
F23A4 = .609
F23A5 = .609
F20B = .762
 

-e f i n i-

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Hmmm i've always wanted to ask... Open deck and closed deck... what are those? i remember reading an article on it... but cant remember already.
 

mrbear

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basically its just "block" .. (special ones)

(Honda PRelude) H22A
The 93-96 VTEC blocks are solid decks and the 97+ are open deck. There
might be some 97 TECS that are solid if Honda had left over blocks from
96 but atll the 5th gen are supposed to be open deck. I was told by a
friend that race SCCA and uses the H22As and he says he has to hunt
down pre 96 VTEC motors because he does not want to use the open deck
blocks. But even if you have an open deck, you can have a block guard
installed or just get a 96 motor and built it up while you drive you
car around with the original motor."


"H22A blocks have had a "solid block" design since their inception in
'93, as well as the Carbon-matrix liners. The liners are actually
Carbon fibre 'filler' mixed with poly resins to make the liner. The
aluminum (for the block) is actually poured around these liners. The
H22A motor prelude VTEC) and the C32A (NSX) are the only Honda blocks
in production that utilize that liner."
 
Last edited:

aja

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-e f i n i- said:
Hmmmmm CL7 Euro-R hard to catch up with CL1 Euro-R.. CL7 is heavier by 60kg.
Hmm checked the specs.
H22A has the same power as K20A, but H22A has slightly more torque, not surprising as its 0.2L larger.
Btw, CF4 Euro-R and CL1 Euro-R are the same cars right?
Argh, i still cant accept the fact that H22A is better than K20A!!
CL1 & CL7 are different spesis & spec, not just the 0.2cc & wieght. As for 220hp claimed by Honda for both CL1 & CL7, i really doubt that la, strongly. Say, assume after dyno CL7 may be around 170whp which lead to a high variation of hp against FIXED weight. so the power-to-weight ratio is really not so worthful.

So, by prinsipal my theory on CL1 & CL7 good for car for pergi pasar, masjid etc are correct la. kekekekekeke
 

-e f i n i-

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but ler... if used for masjid or pasar only... quite wasting laa... CL7 and CL1 are freaking nice looking cars.
hmmm...
they say K24 block is taller than K20 block (which should be true as the stroke of K24 is so much way longer). See, if we can fit a F20C crank or K20 crank on the K20/K24 hybrid engine, and then run a longer rod, we might be able to make a high revving engine.

some say F20C head can fit on K20 also.
 
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mrbear

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Honda Prelude

Honda's fifth-generation Prelude may look less menacing than its predecessor; however, it is loaded with potent "weapons," confides a senior Honda engineer. The sleek 2+2 coupe's main markets are Japan, the U.S., and Europe.

There is a bewildering variety of engine options for the three markets. The U.S. will basically use one engine, the type-H22A dual overhead camshaft, VTEC (Honda's variable valve timing/lift system), 2157 cm3, inline four-cylinger engine rated for 145 kW (SAE net) at 6600 rpm and 211 N·m at 5250 rpm with a 10.0:1 compression ratio (CR). The same engine mated to the four-speed automatic produces 3.7 kW less.

Europe will have the H22A 2.2-L and its 2.0-L version, the latter receiving favorable tax concessions in certain countries. Japan gets four engine choices. The type H22A is available in two stages of tune; the normal version puts out 149 kW (JIS net) at 6800 rpm and 219 N·m of torque at 5500 rpm on a slightly higher 10.6:1 CR. The "S" version of the H22A has power and torque of 164 kW at 7200 rpm and 221 N·m at 6500 rpm, respectively, on a yet higher 11.0:1 CR. The H22A S adopts high performance camshafts with more valve overlap and higher lifts as follows:

Normal H22A "S" H22A
Valve Timing
Intake opening, (°BTDC) 15 15
Intake closing, (°ATDC) 40 45
Exhaust opening, (°BBDC) 40 45
Exhaust closing, (°ATDC) 15 15
Valve lift
Intake, (mm) 11.5 12.2
Exhaust, (mm) 10.5 11.2
* Honda's valve timing/lift are measured at 1-mm lift

Additionally, the S engine is given the same treatment as the junior Integra "R" 1.8-L engine including polished intake and exhaust ports, smoother-surfaced (by finer casting sand) intake manifold, and freer exhaust system. The S spec engine is Japanese exclusive and combined with a manual five-speed transmission. The VTEC engine's change-over from the low- to high-speed valve timing and lift operation occurs around 5000-5600 rpm.

Common with all H22A engines is the open-deck aluminum cylinder block with cast-in iron liners–a change from the previous closed-deck design. The open-deck design is less prone to casting reject, and its productivity is higher. A new, three-layer, two-bead welded head gasket compensates for reduced rigidity of the block. The new piston design for the H22A features a full-floating crankpin which contributes to quieter engine operation by allowing a closer fit between the pin and the piston, thereby reducing any clatter when the engine is cold.

The other two engines are versions of the type F22A, with different internal dimensions (85.0 mm bore and 95.0 mm stroke vs. the H22A's 87.0 mm and 90.7 mm, respectively), obtaining the same displacement of 2156 cm3. Power and torque values for the SOHC, 16-valve unit are 101 kW (JIS net) and 192 N·m at 4500 rpm on a 8.8:1 compression ratio, and the dual overhead camshaft version produces 119 kW at 6000 rpm and 201 N·m at 5200 on a 9.2:1 CR. The F22A requires regular unleaded gasoline, whereas the H22A is specified with premium grade fuel.

The F22A is now fitted with a cast aluminum oil pan with extensive internal ribbing as is the H22A for structural rigidity and noise suppression. The engine and transmission are tied by a cast-aluminum stiffener.

As for emissions standards, the U.S. versions meet Tier 1 regulations, a part of Honda's strategy ranging from the current Tier 1, through TLEV, to LEV requirements in Calfornia. The Japanese models satisfy the current rules. The most stringent emissions standards are those of EC; therefore, the European engines' outputs are lower than those for the two other markets.

A five-speed manual transmission is offered across the board. An advanced version of Honda's electronically controlled automatic transmission is available, except for the U.S. SH and Japanese S models. This is a latest generation Honda automatic, incorporating a larger-capacity and faster microprocessor; the three linear solenoid shift-control valves; two clutch-pressure-control solenoid valves; a revised lockup torque converter with a solenoid control valve; a Grade Logic Control system; and Sequential SportShift. Honda calls this transmission "full-direct control" as engagement and disengagement are actuated by individual linear solenoid valves. The whole transmission is 25 mm shorter than the previous version because of the elimination of low-gear-hold and one-way clutches, made possible by the full-direct control.

The transmission is tuned for smooth gear shifts in the automatic range which features an Acura RL-like zigzag gate, while crisper changes can be made in the Sequential SportShift manual mode with push-pull movement of the lever in a straight gate marked "+" (upshift) and "-" (downshift).

The Japanese S and American SH models are equipped with Honda's ATTS (active torque transfer system), rechristened from the prototype's DYC (direct yaw control–AE Sep. '96) designation. The ATTS is the fruit of the theoretical analysis and pragmatic engineering of the small team led by chassis designer extraordinaire Yasugi Shibahata of Honda Tochigi R&D Center.

Shibahata came to Honda ten years ago after a tenure at Nissan where he felt he had accomplished what he had set out to do–researching and designing various chassis systems including the very early HICAS rear-wheel steering–and was seeking a new field. Shibahata wanted to try his hand on a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive car, but that was a "no-no" at Honda, which was travelling en masse on the front-wheel-drive route. So he turned his attention to a next best thing, all-wheel-drive, with which he expected to make a huge leap in vehicle dynamics (Porsche's 959 AWD super car appeared about that time). Not quite, tells Shibahata, a variable front and rear wheel torque split did not reap such a great harvest. Then one day it occured to him; what if driving torque is variably split between the left and right rear wheels.

Shibahata and his company fortified this finding with their "b-method," a theory using stabilizing, yaw-moment diagrams to analyze vehicle behavior over a full range of motions, including the nonlinear region and transient stages (SAE 923081, 940870, etc.). And his team built a number of all-wheel-drive prototypes employing the direct yaw control system. These vehicles impressed those who drove them, your Asian editor being one of outsiders allowed to drive a furious Integra coupe powered by an experimental Lysholm-compressor-boosted engine. Trying as hard as he and his team members did, the Honda management did not adopt the system in a production vehicle due to its high cost.

Shibahata returned to his old domain, suspension design, briefly. During this sojourn, he designed a new front suspension for high-power front-wheel-drive cars. The "double joint" suspension is adopted in the American SH and Japanese S coupe models in order to take full advantage of the greater steering feel, linearity and tremendous cornering power offered by ATTS. In place of the normal single pivot compliance bushing on the suspension's lower link, the double-pivot suspension has one pivot each for the trailing diagonal link and the lower I-arm. The geometry minimizes torque steer effects, and reduces longitudinal input load by as much as 14% and vertical load by 8%.

Once again Shibahata had an idea, and he tried his direct yaw control principle on a front-wheel-drive prototype. Results were quite dramatic; however, he was more cautious in "selling" his idea to the powers that be at Honda R&D. Yoshiski Uchida, large car project leader (LPL) in charge of the fifth generation Prelude, was impressed with the crude prototype which still had a clumsy, two-shaft, torque-transfer system that left about 100 mm of ground clearance. RAD (representative of automobile development) Tomoyuki Sugiyama of the parent Honda Motor Company, himself an accomplished development engineer, was also impressed. So much so, Sugiyama transferred Shibahata and his team which still belonged to the R&D Center's Research segment, to the Development function "to make the ATTS a product reality in this century," specifically to be included in the new Prelude. Shibahata's breakthrough technology was a triple-planetary gear unit within the ATTS. RAD Sugiyama sees a promising future for the ATTS; its adaptation to a rear-wheel-drive, or even a mid-engine, rear-drive super car, like Honda's own NSX, as well as the all-wheel-drive version which Honda has already developed.

The Prelude chassis is basically a refinement of that used in its predecessor, except the SH/S's new double-joint front suspension. The Japanese S model's ABS utilizes the ATTS' yaw-rate and lateral-acceleration sensors, and its electronic control unit interacts with the ATTS ECU, providing active braking control. Shibahata explains that it is an active vehicle stability system as employed by Mercedes Benz (Bosch VDC) and Toyota (VSC), except that it does not have a mechanical hydraulic pressure system. As long as the driver keeps pushing the brake pedal the system takes care of optimally modulating the individual brakes for maximum stability.

Optionally available in the Japanese Prelude, except the base SOHC and high-performance S models, is an electronically controlled, electrically actuated rear-wheel-steering system. The 4WS (four-wheel-steering) system reduces the turning circle from the normal model's 11 meters (11.4 for the ATTS-equipped S) curb-to-curb to 9.4 meters.

The U.S. Prelude is shod with wide P205/50R16 tires on aluminum alloy wheels, which are shared by the Japanese VTEC models. The new Prelude body has gained 55% more rigidity in bending and 24% more in torsion. The car measures 4520 mm long, 1750 mm wide, and 1315 mm tall on a 2585-mm wheelbase. Curb mass ranges between 1220 kg and 1310 kg.
 

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Can u please share info with me..

Is it ok if i want to change just the Spring without changing the absober.

I thought i want to change my standard spring to the Eibach Pro-Kit but still using the original absober.

what is your advise?

thank you!
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