EG clubs/owner etc

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
Well I think you better study about spark plug gapping, there's many articles on the net on it.
Bigger gap, need powerful coil, if you don't, you get misfires. The feedback from the primary coil winding in the coil from a misfire will result in that bouncing rpm thing. If smaller gap, spark is less powerful, but also less strain on coil.

This is how the americans get away with using standard distributor on their turbo cars without killing the standard coil and igniter

Since changing distributor SOLVED the problem, I think the problem is that you are overstressing the coils, so the coil dies faster and kills your igniter along with it. In this case, you can just run external coil with the MSD cap, no need the ignition box. But can't really know for sure how much amperage the aftermarket coil draws and if it can kill your igniter. This one you have to ask honda-tech if anyone uses the same combo you plan to use. If you tell them you are running FCON, I think they'll also say you should just switch to coil on plugs. lol.

Of course, you can also use the MSD ignition box. It wouldn't fry the igniter unless your igniter already spoiling. It just means you have two igniters when you connect to the msd ignition box. One igniter to trigger the secondary igniter, then only goes to external coil.

Oh, BTW, 11.x AFR is quite rich for turbo also. What kind of boost levels are you running? If you got EGT readings even better, can see how hot your turbo is running, and if it really needs that rich an AFR.
yea.. keeping as rich as possible ,stock internals with small V 10.2:1 comp piston and 2mm head metal gasket.......running max at 1.2 bar........currently around 0.6-0.8 bar......i only have shadow exhaust temp, reading 300-500 when cruising, 700-900 when boosting......

so i think i get the cap, coil and cables 1st and see how.... cause internal upgrades,clutch and lsd is coming soon also.... :banghead:

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------

ohhh... gap between the electrode and the plug is call plug gap.. now i understand....
 

shiroitenshi

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,676
170
1,663
yea.. keeping as rich as possible ,stock internals with small V 10.2:1 comp piston and 2mm head metal gasket.......running max at 1.2 bar........currently around 0.6-0.8 bar......i only have shadow exhaust temp, reading 300-500 when cruising, 700-900 when boosting......

so i think i get the cap, coil and cables 1st and see how.... cause internal upgrades,clutch and lsd is coming soon also.... :banghead:

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------

ohhh... gap between the electrode and the plug is call plug gap.. now i understand....
Great, at least you already have the failsafes. 700-900 is pretty low when boosting. Probably due to you running 11AFR at boost. Good to see you have EGT meter at least. It's a cheaper option to running wideband 24/7.

10+CR is high if you want to boost higher. If you run at 1bar, should be okay I think. Depends on tuning.

Seems like you have to get it tuned in the end anyway, with AFRs like that.

BTW, racun racun again. :listen:
Coil-On-Plug (COP) Conversion Kit - B-Series Honda Engines
Apparently AEM made a plug and play version. LOL.

AEM 4 Channel Twin Fire Ignition Module
Twin FAIYA!!!

Oh wait, four ignition output required.. LOLZ.
 
Last edited:

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
Great, at least you already have the failsafes. 700-900 is pretty low when boosting. Probably due to you running 11AFR at boost. Good to see you have EGT meter at least. It's a cheaper option to running wideband 24/7.

10+CR is high if you want to boost higher. If you run at 1bar, should be okay I think. Depends on tuning.

Seems like you have to get it tuned in the end anyway, with AFRs like that.

BTW, racun racun again. :listen:
Coil-On-Plug (COP) Conversion Kit - B-Series Honda Engines
Apparently AEM made a plug and play version. LOL.

AEM 4 Channel Twin Fire Ignition Module
Twin FAIYA!!!

Oh wait, four ignition output required.. LOLZ.
huhuhu....i think msd is good enough for me dy.. since might go over 15psi of boost.....in future:listen:

my piston used is 10.2:1 comp, but with the 2mm, i think is already 9.X:1 .. at least what we saw is the valve been break up with the piston, they will never touch each other, lol... the tuning is pretuned by top fuel.....i just following the spec they required......
 

shiroitenshi

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,676
170
1,663
huhuhu....i think msd is good enough for me dy.. since might go over 15psi of boost.....in future:listen:

my piston used is 10.2:1 comp, but with the 2mm, i think is already 9.X:1 .. at least what we saw is the valve been break up with the piston, they will never touch each other, lol... the tuning is pretuned by top fuel.....i just following the spec they required......
Pretuned by top fuel? go email them and see what ignition they suggest. I would be interested to know what they recommend. I think they got english speaking staff at their place now, so english email also they reply.

Hope you share your boosting stories when it's completed. :burnout:
 

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
btw, my plug gap is 0.8mm... ngk iriway 8
 

shiroitenshi

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,676
170
1,663
btw, my plug gap is 0.8mm... ngk iriway 8
Spark Plug Gap??? - Honda-Tech
0.025-0.030", recommended for honda boosted applications. Translates to 0.6-0.7mm

Too small a gap in that range will foul your plugs easily because the weaker spark of smaller gapped plugs. in this case you have to trial and error. This, you can do now while waiting for your MSD so can try and see if it solves your problem. Edit: Then again, I don't know how much timing you're running in boost, so was about to suggest trying 7s instead of 8s, since 8's foul easier.
 
Last edited:

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
Spark Plug Gap??? - Honda-Tech
0.025-0.030", recommended for honda boosted applications. Translates to 0.6-0.7mm

Too small a gap in that range will foul your plugs easily because the weaker spark of smaller gapped plugs. in this case you have to trial and error. This, you can do now while waiting for your MSD so can try and see if it solves your problem. Edit: Then again, I don't know how much timing you're running in boost, so was about to suggest trying 7s instead of 8s, since 8's foul easier.
i am quite confuse with timing everyone talking bout now... the timing is adjusted via ECU or the distributor?:confused:
 

shiroitenshi

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,676
170
1,663
i am quite confuse with timing everyone talking bout now... the timing is adjusted via ECU or the distributor?:confused:
Timing is adjustable through both distributor and ECU.

Distributor static timing affect entire rev and load range.

ECU timing adjustment can be specific and targeted to specific rev and load range.

e.g. if you advance your static timing by +2 degree, Tuner can retard entire map and nullify the 2 deg advance you put in.
 

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
Timing is adjustable through both distributor and ECU.

Distributor static timing affect entire rev and load range.

ECU timing adjustment can be specific and targeted to specific rev and load range.

e.g. if you advance your static timing by +2 degree, Tuner can retard entire map and nullify the 2 deg advance you put in.
hurm now should i retard it? cause i tried before, if advance, good low end throttle respond, press then go when start from 1k rpm... but if u running slow, like not pressing the pedal and tun at 1k rpm in 1st gear, the car feel not comfort cause tend to go forward and backward continuously......if retard, comfort, when car is slow, no continuously forward and backward motion, but slow response when low rpm like u start to press pedal at 1k rpm at 1st gear... my situation now is at the advance condition, good response but not comfy when running slow in traffic jam condition

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

and bro, looked back to my dyno graph again, notice that my air fuel graph was smooth, just that during a rpm range of 400rpm, at my vtec engagement point, fuel suddenly run leaner as compared to the other, normal running between 11.6-12.5 :1 .... when in this few hundred of rpm, air fuel gone from 12.5 to 13-13.25:1 .. is it normal?
 

shiroitenshi

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,676
170
1,663
hurm now should i retard it? cause i tried before, if advance, good low end throttle respond, press then go when start from 1k rpm... but if u running slow, like not pressing the pedal and tun at 1k rpm in 1st gear, the car feel not comfort cause tend to go forward and backward continuously......if retard, comfort, when car is slow, no continuously forward and backward motion, but slow response when low rpm like u start to press pedal at 1k rpm at 1st gear... my situation now is at the advance condition, good response but not comfy when running slow in traffic jam condition

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

and bro, looked back to my dyno graph again, notice that my air fuel graph was smooth, just that during a rpm range of 400rpm, at my vtec engagement point, fuel suddenly run leaner as compared to the other, normal running between 11.6-12.5 :1 .... when in this few hundred of rpm, air fuel gone from 12.5 to 13-13.25:1 .. is it normal?
The car rocking backward forwards at low speed is due to mounts. check your rear mount. Probably broken. It's possibly ALSO related to how the car is tuned in the ECU maps, so when you advance, the timing at 1K is giving quite a bit of power, but it really shouldn't, at 800-1000K rpm in the ECU tables, better set a bit conservative because coasting will suffer when in gear at low speeds at 1K rpm. I used to set mine like that. It feels powerful, but it kills your rear engine mount.

Distributor timing should always follow the tuner recommendation. Original honda is 16 BTDC, but since nobody/most tuners DOESN'T do the short SCS connector/lock ignition timing before setting distributor to eliminate compensation by ECU, you guess is as good mine as how much to advance or retard, and you're also using v-pro, so I don't know what kind of ignition timing the ecu is pushing out as set by tuner. Using the regular non-adjustable timing light, what you should see is the ecu timing, honda crank only show TDC and 16deg mark, which is in between the three marking close together. so without a dial back from zero timing light (the adjustable type), can't really know what static ignition you're running at idle rpm

If you have a dial back from zero timing light, can try advance one degree at a time until you get that sweet spot. It's not the best solution, since the best is still tuner recommendation.

yes, at vtec engagement point, usually become lean a bit, the sudden crossover means that more air goes in, but it's not normal for a 'tuned' car as in vtec crossover, the ecu should be set to dump more fuel just before vtec opens to eliminate that lean spike. With N/A, i say forget it, no worries. 13.25 -14 momentarily at vtec crossover won't blow engines. With turbo, looks like your tune in the VPRO is not so good, but if low boost, should be usable. all VTEC usually lean a bit at that point, but it should be a spike, not a flat lean line.
 
Last edited:

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
yea.. it look lis a spike to me..... and my rear mount is new.....it is not like vibration, it is just not comfy when ur leg is out from the pedal at 1k rpm at 1st gear, the car tend to accelerate and stop by it self... i dunno how to explain, but i think u might know it.. just not comfy.... in case u nid more info on how the air fuel spike, i attach the dyno graph.. but not full pull la... just pull till 6k rpm plus,cause poping occur that time and blown piston... now rebuilt dy....:wavey:
 

Attachments

Last edited:

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
but that time still getting 243nm 233whp at 6.4k rpm.. boosted 0.75bar
 

shiroitenshi

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,676
170
1,663
yea.. it look lis a spike to me..... and my rear mount is new.....it is not like vibration, it is just not comfy when ur leg is out from the pedal at 1k rpm at 1st gear, the car tend to accelerate and stop by it self... i dunno how to explain, but i think u might know it.. just not comfy.... in case u nid more info on how the air fuel spike, i attach the dyno graph.. but not full pull la... just pull till 6k rpm plus,cause poping occur that time and blown piston... now rebuilt dy....:wavey:
Lol, accelerate and and stop by itself? yeah, that's the same thing I mean. if your rear mount is new, it won't be long till it's broken. :P I broke two in one year before reducing timing at 800-1000 rpm.

But looking at the graph, the afr looks quite good apart from the lean spike. since turbo, better try and fix if you can.

Wah blown one piston already. Did you find out why piston blown? too much ignition, or too much compression?

[email protected] rpm is not bad and 12.5AFR quite a good target AFR for boost. saw the map going rich at at 6K plus too, means the fuel mapping is quite okay also, but I would probably choose to put more fuel just before vtec in the mapping.
 
Last edited:

peterj

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 27, 2010
1,321
258
1,683
Kuching
to be true, two piston blown, last time a shitty dyno doing rechip for me before b.o.t, on a dyno session, redline always even din realize running lean..... open up engine to check when i rebuilt, realize the piston already kena makan , and "longkang" of the piston crack.. lucky no damage my block.....so i nvr go back to that dyno centre i doing rechip before i b.o.t anymore....

---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

*piston ring kena makan

---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

and i more concern on torque then horses... after i saw my torque more then horses... finally i talk to my car that it is no more torqueless wonder... lol
 

shiroitenshi

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,676
170
1,663
to be true, two piston blown, last time a shitty dyno doing rechip for me before b.o.t, on a dyno session, redline always even din realize running lean..... open up engine to check when i rebuilt, realize the piston already kena makan , and "longkang" of the piston crack.. lucky no damage my block.....so i nvr go back to that dyno centre i doing rechip before i b.o.t anymore....

---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

*piston ring kena makan

---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

and i more concern on torque then horses... after i saw my torque more then horses... finally i talk to my car that it is no more torqueless wonder... lol
Still torqueless wonder until that turbo spool lol.
Hope you solve that misfiring problem soon :wavey:
 

Random Post Every 5 Minutes

hi everyone im a newbie here...i wana ask those pros out there,isit posible to convert my stock kancil 660 carb to kelisa 850 EFI?? im stil thinking about to converting the 850 twin cam n L2,which one will be beter??? thx
Ask a question, start a discussion or post something for sale!
Post thread

Online now

Enjoying Zerotohundred?

Log-in for an ad-less experience