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double vanos vs vtec

Discussion in 'Forced Induction & Engine Management' started by arif_tarabas, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. arif_tarabas

    arif_tarabas Senior Member
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    ?can someone tell me who win double vanos of bmw or legendary vtec
     
  2. AE111_SEG

    AE111_SEG Senior Member
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    All I know is :

    Double Vanos = Dual VVTI
    Vanos Valvetronic = VVTi & Lift
    DOHC Vtec = Lift . B16A B16B, B18C, F20B F20C, H22A
    SOHC Vtec = Lift D15 D17
    DOHC iVtec = VVTI & Lift. K20A K24A
    SOHC iVtec = VVTi . R18, R20

    Pls correct me if I am wrong.....:biggrin:

    Win in terms of what??. Power output... reliability, fuel consumption??? Maintenance??
     
  3. g4i8y0t

    g4i8y0t Senior Member
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    In theory, Vanos is technologically more advance than VTEC. However, VTEC wins in terms of bhp/litre and can rev higher. Fuel consumption wise I'm not sure.
     
  4. ken yeang

    ken yeang Senior Member
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    Win?

    I know that when both system rosak, Double Vanos will "win" VTEC when the repair bill comes to you...
     
  5. g4i8y0t

    g4i8y0t Senior Member
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    You mean, Double Vanos engine costs cheaper (generally) than VTEC to repair?
     
  6. ken yeang

    ken yeang Senior Member
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    Nope. repair for the double vanos will be more expensive. I guarantee that.
     
  7. gOsht

    gOsht 5 Year | Silver

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    The first car Honda ever produced that featured VTEC, the 1989.4 Honda Integra XSi. A Japanese-only model, it featured the legendary B16A engine that, at 160 hp and only 1.6 liters, remained the highest horsepower-per-liter engine for years.
     
  8. ExceL

    ExceL Senior Member
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    While VTEC & VANOS are just brand names for cam profiling/timing.. their "stigma" or "party piece" are interpreted differently by two very different demographics.

    As we all know, VTEC is know for their high revving whatever & that tin can sound (OH SNAP!) just kidding:driver:

    However now one will be quoting that their VANOS "bukak" & producing that banshee scream...just the annoying rattling :rofl:

    Thread starters question cant be more vague & pointless.. "win"?.. Are you charlie sheen?:adore:
     
  9. edwin_lcw

    edwin_lcw Senior Member
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    all i know is VTEC is oil operated and VANOS is chain operated ... pls correct me if i'm wrong .... i think VTEC is more powerful becos i try b18c the feeling is near comparable to a 325i
     
  10. wajunk

    wajunk 5 Year | Silver

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    Woww!! The power of VTEC
     
  11. YYC

    YYC Senior Member
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    What I know is VANOS mechanism is very different from VTEC's, but both utilise the hydraulic pressure to operate the valve timing mechanisms. BMW doesn't employ cam profiling for its VANOS/Valvetronic system (BMW sifoo please confirm). Here is a very good explanation to VANOS operation.

    The crankshaft and camshaft(s) are connected via a timing belt/chain(s) which synchronizes the timing of the opening/closing of the intake and exhaust valves with the piston cycle/position. E39’s have double overhead camshafts, meaning separate intake and exhaust camshafts found at the top of the engine (head). BMW implements a time shift scheme for variable valve timing. That is, the relative rotational position of the camshaft(s) to the crankshaft is modified (shifted). This is done dynamically by command from the engine computer (DME). The scheme is achieved mechanically through the use of helical (slanted) gears. The timing chain sprocket(s) of the camshaft(s) does not connect directly to the camshaft, but has an inner hole larger than the camshaft end. There are opposing direction helical gears at the sprocket inner hole and the camshaft end. An independent splined shaft (cup) inserts between the sprocket hole and camshaft end and connects the two components. The splined shaft (cup) inner and outer surfaces have helical gears with opposing directions which correspond and mate to the sprocket hole and camshaft end helical gears. The insertion/extraction (in/out) of the splined shaft causes the relative rotational position of the sprocket to the camshaft end to change. This implicitly causes rotational position change (time shift) between the camshaft and crankshaft (connected to the camshaft sprocket via chain). An insertion of the splined shaft causes the camshaft to rotate proportionally forward causing a timing advance (earlier). An extraction of the splined shaft causes the camshaft to rotate proportionally backward causing a timing retard (later). The vanos is a devise that attaches to the front of the engine at the camshaft end, sprocket, and splined shaft. Controlled by the DME (electrical), it utilizes engine oil/pressure to manipulate the position of the splined shaft (valve timing). The vanos incorporates a piston which is bolted to the end of the splined shaft. The piston sits inside a cylinder. There are cylinder/piston enclosed oil chambers at the fore and aft of the piston. A vanos valve controls the flow of pressurized engine oil into the two opposing chambers. The valve position is manipulated by a solenoid which is controlled electrically by the DME. The DME controls the oil pressure in the opposing cylinder/piston oil chambers to position the piston, and thus control the valve timing. The DME receives piston / splined shaft / camshaft position feedback from the camshaft position sensor. Both intake and exhaust sides incorporate the same configuration scheme and the DME controls both independently.

    The traditional structural scheme for implementing EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) is to circulate exhaust manifold gases back into the intake manifold. This method can be termed “external” EGR. The E39 i6 with double vanos does not implement an external EGR scheme. Due to the time shift abilities of the vanos, valve timing can be manipulated to allow for exhaust gases to remain in the cylinder after combustion and be mixed in with the next cycle intake air/fuel mixture. This scheme is referred to as “internal” EGR. It’s an efficient scheme, but is highly reliant on the proper function of the vanos for effective variable valve timing.

    Here is the source article where we can see the actual photos of VANOS mechanism

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
    #11 YYC, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  12. spoon civic

    spoon civic 5 Year | Silver

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    from which side to compare?all stock engine or with thousands of toyol?:driver:
     
  13. ecal echal

    ecal echal 5 Year | Silver

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    thousands of toyol??? hahahahah... i think he's referring to stock cond. kot...
    kalau thousands of toyol kinda hard jugak to compare...hehehehe
     
  14. iatebananas

    iatebananas 5 Year | Silver

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    Only for 2 years bro. Then came the 4age silvertop 20v 4 throttle in 1991 which imho, is quicker and more responsive than the stock vtec. :)
     
  15. syimirmazlan

    syimirmazlan 5 Year | Silver

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    both have own advantage.but stock, i prefer double vanos (BMW) of course can tapau vtec on the highway, top speed wise.acceleration, vtec wins of course.
     
  16. spoon civic

    spoon civic 5 Year | Silver

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    ...........................................................:proud:
     
  17. kswee

    kswee 5 Year | Silver

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    Is it hard to repair vanos? Vanos need to change parts?
     
  18. artworkz

    artworkz Senior Member
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    Vtec fast because Honda using race spec cam profile which make engine able to high rev, High Compression ratio and most important close gear ratio.
    Vanos is just VVT-i which enable cam timing advance and retard .cam profile remain same as street car.
    Bmw engine oso can achieve more than 100hp/L just with simple high profile cam swap but more important is gear ratio. the more bigger gear, the more torque on wheel
     
  19. esthapo

    esthapo Trail Bomber
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    Vtec usually mounted on lighter chasis compare to Vanos or Double Vanos engine so comparing power to weight ratio of course Vtec will win for sure...Like artworkz said BMW or toyota engine also can achieve more than 100bhp/litre not only Vtec but for me the important thing is the power to weight ratio. :driver:
     
  20. Maxx

    Maxx Senior Member
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    what i know is,
    Honda VTEC is like having race/aggressive camshaft profile at higher rpm/predetermine rpm setting..
    valve open more -> more air/fuel = more power

    but at normal rpm, it will use normal camshaft profile.. so u will have normal engine n Fuel Consumption..

    its like having both normal n high camshaft in 1 engine..

    not sure about Vanos thou..

    ---------- Post added at 02:52 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

    here. i found this article.
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