boring time, lets share some knowledge on fuel system

peterj

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i recently have nothing to do and went to watch my friend doing cars( friend is a mechanic:nurse:) and found out something that some of the sifus here already know but i think sharing it out will make those who dont know, to learn and aware of how important is maintaining the car's fuel system (petrol engine):nurse:

lets see something first


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picture 1-5 is i taken when my fren took out the fuel pump assembly from a gtr34 v-spec II ... that car recently suffer lost of power and lean running condition.. first we though of the external twin bosh 044 fuel pump spoilt but after my fren took out the filter and look inside, then he direct took the in tank fuel pump out.. ta da:wavey: .... a fuel tank full of rust.. so we suspect the whole fuel system (pump, fuel filters, injectors, etc...) is contaminated by dust of rust so need a full clean up right there which bring headache since the fuel tank might need replace since it rust also...

picture 6-7 is the "dissected view" of my currently changed old fuel filter ... i not sure how long since the last owner last change but it seems like the filter paper caught a lot of dirt...

ok, enough for long story, lets come to the point

why can all these occur? and why it is important to make sure our fuel system is clean beside to protect it from rust?

from the skyline owner and also the knowledge of mechanics, the fuel system or tank rust because

  1. the car engine is kept "static" (no running no start) condition for a long period of time
  2. when filling up fuel, not fill up till full tank or close to full tank

what effects of rust, dirty fuel filters?

  1. rust is like the cancer of metals, once it spread, no cure, look at the skyline fuel pump assembly, rust spread into the whole system until the filter clogged with rust's dust, fuel tank rust till need replace to ensure fuel system clean :deal::deal:
  2. and, the dust will clog the fuel filters as well as injectors which lead to lean engine which may damage the engine:banghead:
  3. even the fuel system has no rust, there are still tiny dirt catched by filtered and some might also clog your injectors, however , this scenario is nothing better then rust since the tiny dirt after clogged for a period of time will also cause injectors and fuel filters clog and make the engine lost power at the beginning and if it fully clogged it still can lean out the engine:smokin:

To prevent or solve these:nurse:

  1. try not to leave the cars fuel tank empty or near empty and not driving for a long period of time since water vapour trap inside fuel tank and cause rust... furthermore , low fuel level cause the fuel pump work harder and get hot easily especially the pump sucks in air while the level is low and car keep moving, it damage fuel pumps too, even some say racing pump the walbro spoilt faster in this condition:confused:
  2. when pump petrol, try make it full or near full since it can get rid water vapour inside fuel tank, the more space on the fuel tank, more water vapour accumulate on the upper level of petrol and cause rust:nurse:
  3. if the above 2 point really cant be done, there are product in the market for example Redline fuel system water removal& anti freeze which can eliminate water vapour in fuel tank Red Line Synthetic Oil - Gasoline Fuel Additives - Fuel System Water Remover & Antifreeze however i believe using the $$ to buy that product to fill the fuel tank up is much better:biggrin:
  4. do regular maintenance on the fuel system, as simple as servicing injectors per 40 or 50k kilometers and change fuel filter everytime service the injectors(this is my own preference, factory manual might vary), this ensure clean petrol to your engine and can clean fuel system brings back respond and power of engine, like my case, it is very obvious the power is smoother and more power then before service and change fuel filter.:driver:

ok, sorry for long writing,i hope these boring thing i share during my boring time bring some knowledge to those who needed....other sifu pls correct me if i am wrong since i am a newbie:wavey:
 

gunnerzz

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The problem is hidden so most of us are not aware of.
Even when the fuel pump is changed we just let the mech change it.

Agree with u to use fuel additive at a regular interval.

Water will mixed with petrol and its not because the petrol station owner mixed it on purpose to earn more.
It happens naturally when being stored in the underground tank at the station.
Its not much but overtime the effect can be seen.

Thats oso the reason manufacturer starts to use fibre tank.
 

jerrysiow

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yo Peter, you did a good writing and not boring at all.

i'm dilemma after seeing you wrote this "service your injectors every 40k-50k mileage" as service all the injectors aren't cheap right? My ride clock close to 40k per annum. Besides, myvi's fuel filter is build inside the fuel pump. So sad that i cant change my fuel filter after a certain mileage.
 

peterj

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yo Peter, you did a good writing and not boring at all.

i'm dilemma after seeing you wrote this "service your injectors every 40k-50k mileage" as service all the injectors aren't cheap right? My ride clock close to 40k per annum. Besides, myvi's fuel filter is build inside the fuel pump. So sad that i cant change my fuel filter after a certain mileage.
40-50k service as i said is my own preferences, there might be some other factory manual's data you can follow... servicing injector at my place cost rm160 for 4 pc injectors, seems reasonable to me cause my car run that mileage per year so for me spending 160 / year to service injector is reasonable, not only to clean injector btw, during servicing u can observe the spray pattern of your injectors and confirm they work in good condition ...

as far as my shallow knowledge told me, most car has 2 fuel filter, one in tank with the fuel pump during the suction of petrol, and another one normally can be found by tracking down the fuel hose that supply petrol to the fuel rail.. you can try go check...:nurse:

---------- Post added at 12:30 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------

The problem is hidden so most of us are not aware of.
Even when the fuel pump is changed we just let the mech change it.

Agree with u to use fuel additive at a regular interval.

Water will mixed with petrol and its not because the petrol station owner mixed it on purpose to earn more.
It happens naturally when being stored in the underground tank at the station.
Its not much but overtime the effect can be seen.

Thats oso the reason manufacturer starts to use fibre tank.
yep fibre tank, even the skyline r34 also had 2 variant if not wrong, one normal tank another one is fibre tank... but it not solve completely since fuel pump assembly and other parts of fuel system not fibre made:biggrin:
 

zack.my

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Jul 10, 2013
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any body who can suggest me where can i buy Fuel System Water Remover & Antifreeze treatment? prefer cash buy from shop..
 

peterj

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any body who can suggest me where can i buy Fuel System Water Remover & Antifreeze treatment? prefer cash buy from shop..
go market place in zth and search, i think those selling redline lube should carry the product
 

Izso

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peterlm, nice article.

Just a question of curiosity though, if the car is immobile for a long period of time and there is moisture in the tank, wouldn't the methane or whatever gases released from the petrol somewhat mix or dilute the moisture somehow? Or will it aggravate or accelerate the rusting of parts?
 

peterj

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peterlm, nice article.

Just a question of curiosity though, if the car is immobile for a long period of time and there is moisture in the tank, wouldn't the methane or whatever gases released from the petrol somewhat mix or dilute the moisture somehow? Or will it aggravate or accelerate the rusting of parts?
lol.. from my shallow knowledge, i think that the methane gas will not dilute the moisture, since oil dont mix with water, not sure my answer is correct or not :stupid: that is why need pump till full to avoid moisture built up in the tank, fill the empty space with petrol..

but somehow if full tank and dont drive for very long period, still moisture can built up in the tank, i just cant understand this part people tell me... is that the petrol it self react with moisture and cause rust while we dont drive and let the moisture gone through our exhaust?:hmmmm:
 

Izso

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lol.. from my shallow knowledge, i think that the methane gas will not dilute the moisture, since oil dont mix with water, not sure my answer is correct or not :stupid: that is why need pump till full to avoid moisture built up in the tank, fill the empty space with petrol..

but somehow if full tank and dont drive for very long period, still moisture can built up in the tank, i just cant understand this part people tell me... is that the petrol it self react with moisture and cause rust while we dont drive and let the moisture gone through our exhaust?:hmmmm:
Don't know man. Perhaps old fuel tanks were not made rust proof? I doubt the new fuel tanks will have issues like this? I've never heard of modern cars having these issues. The longest I've left a car stationary was 3 weeks with the battery disconnected. After that it fired up normally. Took a little longer to fire up because the battery was weakened but it did fire up after that. :hmmmm:
 

peterj

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Don't know man. Perhaps old fuel tanks were not made rust proof? I doubt the new fuel tanks will have issues like this? I've never heard of modern cars having these issues. The longest I've left a car stationary was 3 weeks with the battery disconnected. After that it fired up normally. Took a little longer to fire up because the battery was weakened but it did fire up after that. :hmmmm:
erm.. new car what i heard are the fuel tank are fibre:hmmmm:, like the skyline r34 in the pic, after replace and clean the rusted fuel pump assembly, they took out the tank and clean it since it is fibre,install back then running good.... old car tank the outside normally coated bitumen like our car body, and internal what i saw is like zinc plate like our roof, as you know, after the protection layer gone, it will corrode also... i say it is roof like zinc plate cause i saw my mech dissect one carburetor kancil fuel tank it is like that so i say this:itsme:, maybe some other cars are different materials...

3 weeks is quite ok la bro, that r34 in the pic the datuk owner keep it stationary for 1 year man... and your car after 3 weeks start sure got lots of water vapour from exhaust rite?
 

Izso

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erm.. new car what i heard are the fuel tank are fibre:hmmmm:, like the skyline r34 in the pic, after replace and clean the rusted fuel pump assembly, they took out the tank and clean it since it is fibre,install back then running good.... old car tank the outside normally coated bitumen like our car body, and internal what i saw is like zinc plate like our roof, as you know, after the protection layer gone, it will corrode also... i say it is roof like zinc plate cause i saw my mech dissect one carburetor kancil fuel tank it is like that so i say this:itsme:, maybe some other cars are different materials...

3 weeks is quite ok la bro, that r34 in the pic the datuk owner keep it stationary for 1 year man... and your car after 3 weeks start sure got lots of water vapour from exhaust rite?
Ya.. lots of vapor. Hmmmmmmm... how does the protection layer wear off? Petrol is corrosive?
 

peterj

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Ya.. lots of vapor. Hmmmmmmm... how does the protection layer wear off? Petrol is corrosive?
that one i really dunno, but if it is really zinc material same as our roof, then i believe petrol not the cause of corrosion,it is the water vapour, it might start by corrode the protection layer bit by bit, once the protection layer wear off then the rust go deeper to the tank...

one real life example i gt this "hypothesis" is from our zinc roof, first the "acid rain" corrode the paint layer, and then u can see the "decoloured" zinc roof start rusting right?:hmmmm:
 

Izso

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So water vapor plus high heat promotes rust? I suspect the petrol probably contributes to the rust somehow?

Aisay. Basically all this is guessing. Anyone actually know the answer?
 

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