B18C-R Fuel Injectors Help
- Thread starter chris2000
- Start date
when u change your fuel filter, its the same time u service your injectors. unless u have an EMS, prolly u can see the duty cycle. :p
y need all dis blardy expensive aftermarket injectors?i dun think u really need em unless u WOT 24-7 n ur pushing out like >300ps???
B18CR injectors r fine....it can run on both OBD0(w resistor) n OBD1(no resistor)...i've seen 'em...no problem wat so ever n always more thn enuff fuel..all hafta minus d fuel like mad on their air fuel gizmo during dyno tune
B18CR injectors r fine....it can run on both OBD0(w resistor) n OBD1(no resistor)...i've seen 'em...no problem wat so ever n always more thn enuff fuel..all hafta minus d fuel like mad on their air fuel gizmo during dyno tune
- Apr 18, 2006
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Chris. 2nd gen B16A and B18C injectors have the different connectors, but they are both saturated type. only the first gen has peak hold injectors, you can see this because they have the ballast/resistor box thingy.
As to whether ALL first gen B16A has this, or only some, I don't know.
You can confirm this by using a multimeter to test the resistance of the injectors.. anything more than 10ohms is a saturated injector, anything less than 5ohms is a peak hold. I think your mech knows this already.
Saturated injector uses a injector driver chip that is cheap, which is why it's commonly available.
Peak hold injector drivers are slightly more complex, as they regulate the current as the current draw during opening is high, but to stay open current draw can be low, (I think around saturated injectors current draw). It does this so it can keep the injectors cool for long running periods. Because of the high opening current (higher than that of saturated injectors, it can open quickly which means injector response is better.
The resistor box or ballast as you call it is just a big resistor block.. inside is no fancy curcuitry, only one big chunk of resistor material. if you measure the honda ones, it gives out about 6ohms of resistance.. so in which case, it's a cheap way to run peak hold injectors. The only drawback of this is that the it will run hotter than saturated in the same situation, depending on if you use mitsu or honda peak hold injectors. I think you can confirm this with your mech.
AEM has a computerised peak hold injector which regulates the current, it's not cheap though, but it does allow the use of aftermarket ECUs that does not have peak hold injector drivers.
Anyway, regardless of what injectors you run, it's an interesting note that hondata DISCOURAGES the use of DSM (a.k.a) injectors. As to why, they never stated.
Now this is not fact, but rather what I THINK, which may be wrong.
I think it's because the DSM/mitsubishi low ohms does not generate enough resistance by itself (2ohms or less? not sure, if you can measure for me, it would be good), and since the honda resistor box on certain preludes, accords and crx/ef only generates about 6ohms of resistance, it's not enough to regulate the current, so the injector drivers get hot and goes wacky or something. The stock injectors are about 10+ohms (or was it 13.5-13.7ohms?)
This is my opinion though, so you should check with hondata why they discourage the use of DSM/mitsubishi injectors.
Anyway, there's some things I've heard about peak hold being able to run on some cars without the resistor box.. if so, surely it's not the ori honda ECU box, because hondata shows a video of a stock ecu connected to a peak hold injector (look in their site)
And the injector driver got fried.
Guess you can't believe all you hear.. :P
As to whether ALL first gen B16A has this, or only some, I don't know.
You can confirm this by using a multimeter to test the resistance of the injectors.. anything more than 10ohms is a saturated injector, anything less than 5ohms is a peak hold. I think your mech knows this already.
Saturated injector uses a injector driver chip that is cheap, which is why it's commonly available.
Peak hold injector drivers are slightly more complex, as they regulate the current as the current draw during opening is high, but to stay open current draw can be low, (I think around saturated injectors current draw). It does this so it can keep the injectors cool for long running periods. Because of the high opening current (higher than that of saturated injectors, it can open quickly which means injector response is better.
The resistor box or ballast as you call it is just a big resistor block.. inside is no fancy curcuitry, only one big chunk of resistor material. if you measure the honda ones, it gives out about 6ohms of resistance.. so in which case, it's a cheap way to run peak hold injectors. The only drawback of this is that the it will run hotter than saturated in the same situation, depending on if you use mitsu or honda peak hold injectors. I think you can confirm this with your mech.
AEM has a computerised peak hold injector which regulates the current, it's not cheap though, but it does allow the use of aftermarket ECUs that does not have peak hold injector drivers.
Anyway, regardless of what injectors you run, it's an interesting note that hondata DISCOURAGES the use of DSM (a.k.a) injectors. As to why, they never stated.
Now this is not fact, but rather what I THINK, which may be wrong.
I think it's because the DSM/mitsubishi low ohms does not generate enough resistance by itself (2ohms or less? not sure, if you can measure for me, it would be good), and since the honda resistor box on certain preludes, accords and crx/ef only generates about 6ohms of resistance, it's not enough to regulate the current, so the injector drivers get hot and goes wacky or something. The stock injectors are about 10+ohms (or was it 13.5-13.7ohms?)
This is my opinion though, so you should check with hondata why they discourage the use of DSM/mitsubishi injectors.
Anyway, there's some things I've heard about peak hold being able to run on some cars without the resistor box.. if so, surely it's not the ori honda ECU box, because hondata shows a video of a stock ecu connected to a peak hold injector (look in their site)
And the injector driver got fried.
Guess you can't believe all you hear.. :P
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- Apr 18, 2006
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Not so true, since I just figured out how to wire the auxbox for duty cycle reading..
Problem is.. no time!!(>.<)
heading KL again today.
If got free time, I call any of you for TT.
so rightfully saying..a prelude 330cc peak n hold injectors are good enuff for b20b setup on rechipped ecu in an ek4????
- Apr 18, 2006
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The fuel capacity is for at WOT, I think for people who've noticed how ECU mapping is done, the last final portion is always max (100% duty cycle), usually way before you hit the load(aka manifold pressue) vs. rpm points and like you said we need to reduce fuel on certain rpm vs. load points.
The reason being, when you use big headers and exhaust, low engine speeds, air volume is not as good as the stock one, so need to reduce fuel, I did the same thing on VAFC last time because of poor low/near mid end issues.
Also need to note that you're probably not running the stock fuel pressures with the above, but somewhere around 3.5bar (or higher) at wot, and 3-3.5bar at idle, which is why there is a need to reduce fuel on the low/mid ends.
Notice that on stock engine, more pres than stock probably nets you better acceleration at WOT, but at part throttle, the engine may feel sluggish, or at idle, you can hear the engine coughing due to being rich (which does not happen on a honda ECU by the way at least not for long, because they regulate the AFR at part throttle when running closed loop. (I tested on the LM-1... :P) bumping up fuel pressure slightly, the ECU can compensate, changing the injectors, the ECU cannot. :P
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- Apr 18, 2006
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Yes, so far managed a guy here managed to get 260whp out of the injectors with only 3.5 bar fuel press.
abang akuma, using bigger injectors with proper mapped ecu would definitely be the best option. the part that makes people excited for nothing is the requirement of using a bigger injectors for a bigger displacement thinking that by overfueling through injector size physically will resolve fueling issue. the ecu is still sending the same signal either 100cc or 1000cc injectors. so in other words, its more of a cukup-makan basis..liang-liang ngam-ngam fueling on the dyno with the chosen from-other-brand-car injectors. that is why prelude injectors suddenly went up price for this ngam ngam fueling business. ha ha ha ha
its more of a personal preference if you buy brand new injectors. ada duit boleh beli, beli lah kan..nobody is stopping you. but at the end of the day if you can control it using an EMS, then you dont have to spend so many times on buying injectors on every upgrade. if you use stock ecu and 700cc injectors..sindiri mau ingat lar kawan. ha ha
the RC injectors are expensive koz they have different features. sana website ada cakap mah. hehehe.
sooner or later before we go into page 8 or 15, ppl are gonna ask "is 240cc enough for my mild type-r engine?", "is 310cc enough for my LPT setup on my honda", "my father just bought me a set of 1000cc sard for my birthday, can i use it"...the worst and should win some oscars.."ppl say type-r injectors bigger than EK4...."...
:_:
its more of a personal preference if you buy brand new injectors. ada duit boleh beli, beli lah kan..nobody is stopping you. but at the end of the day if you can control it using an EMS, then you dont have to spend so many times on buying injectors on every upgrade. if you use stock ecu and 700cc injectors..sindiri mau ingat lar kawan. ha ha
the RC injectors are expensive koz they have different features. sana website ada cakap mah. hehehe.
sooner or later before we go into page 8 or 15, ppl are gonna ask "is 240cc enough for my mild type-r engine?", "is 310cc enough for my LPT setup on my honda", "my father just bought me a set of 1000cc sard for my birthday, can i use it"...the worst and should win some oscars.."ppl say type-r injectors bigger than EK4...."...
:_:
hehe... Bro, this thread was started by me when i was asking and looking around for injector upgrade. But if you read the 1st post, this thread was started by me in January 2006! It is almost 1 and half year ago.
Now, i have sources for reasonably price RC 310cc and 370cc injectors for Honda B-Series.
- Apr 18, 2006
- 3,676
- 170
- 1,663
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