1. Hello! We've made major changes to both the Forums and Marketplace section recently. Please join the discussion and tell us your feedback! Read Here for urgent matters, send an email to forums@zerotohundred.com | Update: User Like count is back | Current Progress: Adding improvments to The Marketplace
    Dismiss Notice

4G13 Carburetor Bolt On Turbo

Discussion in 'Car Modification' started by scorpiod, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. scorpiod

    scorpiod Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all.

    I own an Iswara with 4G13 Carburetor engine. I want add on a turbo into the car. Just for fun purposes. What do I need to add/change to the engine? I have read across lots of forums but there are many ideas which clashes with each other. I hope there is some sifus here who are willing to give me some tips on what I need.
    Some people asked me to change an engine but I want to maintain the old engine.
    Some parts can be used in fuel injection engines but not carburetor engines. I don’t know what parts can be used with my engine.
    The car would be running low boost as I don’t plan to change the internals yet. I heard that if the engine is running a lower boost, the internal parts do not need to be changed. Is this true?
    There are things in my mine which I think I need them. Some of them might not be necessary. These things below which I don’t know I really need them all.
    -intercooler (what size?)
    -fuel regulator/fuel press (do I need this? /can a carburetor engine use this?)
    -fuel pump/external fuel pump (do I need this? /can a carburetor engine use this?)
    -blow off valve
    -open pod air filter (what size?)
    -turbo
    -manifold
    -boost controller
    -boost meter
    -piping (what size do I need to use?)
    -(what else do I need?)

    There are some questions that I want to ask.
    How do I increase the fuel psi in a carburetor engine? I heard that adding a turbo in a n/a engine requires additional supply of fuel. For example: 10psi of turbo boost and 12psi of fuel supply (I read this from somewhere).
    How to adjust the settings of fuel/air/turbo boost?
    Hope someone who has done that experiment/project can share it here.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. chris_ch3w

    chris_ch3w Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    4
    1st of all..u nid to change ur carburator system to injection type. best is MMC wiring n ecu.

    yes, when run on lower boost, no need change internal. I just changed to metal gasket 0.8mm running on stock boosting.

    intercooler use vr4 small size or gsr ones.

    fuel regulator im using aerospeed (dunno whether i need it but i bought it anyway, using 4g92 injectors)

    fuel pump no need change

    bov u can buy the replica wans

    open pod air filter im using apexi dual funnel

    turbo - td04l

    manifold - custom

    boost controller - dun think we need it coz we on stock boosting

    boost meter - apexi bf

    piping for intercoolers oso u need to custom

    n piping exhaust u nid 2.5" from head to tail

    i only know u can adjust ur fuel regulator.

    anyway, im oso newbie in dis. just got my car dis week. havent fully driven..haha :thefinger:
     
  3. scorpiod

    scorpiod Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for your opinion.

    How about maintaining the carburetor system and make a carburetor turbo engine? I think there are some carburetor turbo engines around too right? I have seen an Iswara with carburetor turbo. I wonder how they done that. I saw the picture of the car only. The owner did not even install an air filter. Just the turbo and direct into the carburetor and did not use any intercooler but with a bov.

    How much to convert into fuel injection? Do you need another ecu like e-manage or what?

    By the way, Chris, your car is an Iswara? Where do you get the metal gaskets? Just replace the original carbon/paper one with metal? Do you add any piece of anything before and after the metal gasket? Or just the piece of metal gasket?

    I have bought a CT9 turbo from 4E-FTE Toyota Starlet. I have a bov now too. I am not sure what things I need so I am scared that I bought things that I do not need to use/cannot use and ended up wasting money. Running on stock boost means that I just install the turbo in the system without any boost controlling items? Wastegate? Boost controller? etc? How do we see the boost then? How much is stock boost?

    Thanks and sorry for my loso-ness.
     
  4. chris_ch3w

    chris_ch3w Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    4
    im using satria 4g13 siemens..converted to MMC ..cost me 1.5k include labor

    im noobs in dis actually, just sharing out some experience yea..im not so sure bout carbs turbo, mayb anyone else sifu can help around??

    my mech advice me use e-manage soon..the metal gasket, my mech bought for me wan..or u can try check the the marketplace here in performance n engine section. mine changed coz my gasket koyak d..thus my waterpump all failed..cost me a bump..haha

    i dunno the toyota startlet turbo can be use or not, u have a mech to help u out??or u jus doin it urself? best is u hav a mech helpin u around..sometimes we listen to ppl is not 100% correct..must hav a mech to advice u, best is ur mech is ur fren or wat la so he doesnt cheat or what..rite?

    to see the boost, we need boost meter. stock boost is not mistaken is 0.6bar. it is set already in the turbine itself. no prob bro...not loso..i was once like urself...wan to do but no one help out..im glad cud help out abit..

    u can try my fren mitch - 017 677 6177, hes my mech :biggrin:
     
  5. scorpiod

    scorpiod Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    So sad to say that my mech does not know anything about this. They only replace wear and tear only. Not into performance modification. 1.5k is quite a lot convert it. I heard that carburetor turbos does not need an ecu, thats why I wanted to make a carburetor turbo. Its cheaper because I don't need to convert into fuel injection which would cost me RM1500 and an ecu which might cost me around RM2000? I could save around RM3500 if possible. Besides that I would not need to add higher cc injectors too.

    I have a rough figure about what i need to install now.
    I just want to know:
    -how to adjust the fuel psi become higher? (can I use my original fuel pump? is there any button/switch/nut to adjust the fuel psi become higher? how to control the psi of fuel so that will maintain at a standard psi? carburetor can use fuel regulator is it?)
    -do I really need a boost controller/wastegate? or just plug in and use the stock boost which is around 0.6bar?
    -what size of intercooler piping do I need to use?
    -there are bolt on turbo kits/people(or shop) who done bolt on turbo kits for carburetor engines. i hope these people can share out too because they have been doing/have done bolt on turbo kits for people (if they are kind enough).

    Hope I can collect enough information as soon as possible so that I can install the turbo soon because I am sending my car to overhaul. Any ideas/opinions/thoughts are much appreciated.
     
  6. SkYwAlKeR

    SkYwAlKeR Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    10,149
    Likes Received:
    300
    if u understand how carburetor fuel delivery works compare to turbocharge engines, u'll know the limitations of turbocharging a carburetor... u could not control the fuel delivery off and on boost.... that is why it is recommended to swap to fuel injection engine before turbocharging it...

    carburetor fuel delivery graph is linear... means it increases with respect to the amount of air enters the combustion chamber.... meanwhile in turbocharged engine, fuel delivery when off and on boost is totally different... when turbine spools, huge loads of air rushes into ur combustion chamber... this is when u have positive pressure (higher than atmospheric pressure) in ur intake manifold... in this short period, ur fuel pressure needs to increase alot to compensate with the amount of air enters...

    in short, if u wanna turbocharge a carburetor engine, u need to set ur AFR very rich during off boost so when turbo spools, the AFR is balanced... if u set ur AFR at stoich level during off boost, when turbine spools u'll get a blown engine...

    back to ur questions...

    - increase fuel pressure by adding fuel pressure regulator or adding more external fuel pump.... carburetor mechanical fuel pump is insufficient for the job... how to control it??... as i said above, there is basically no way, unless u convert to fuel injection engine, ecu ables to control the amount of fuel delivery into the engine...

    - yes u need a boost controller... mechanical one will do... wastegate depends on what turbine u using... some turbine has wastegate build into it... as for blow off valve, yes u need it...

    - intercooler piping around 1.7" is sufficient... remember, the larger it is, the less throttle respond it is...
     
  7. Yong_5290

    Yong_5290 Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,650
    Likes Received:
    49
    its vr vr hard 2 tune a crbie turbo...can forget about it
     
  8. scorpiod

    scorpiod Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Yong and Skywalker.

    If I convert into fuel injection, do I need things like e-manage? I have seen some cars without e-manage also. Only with stock ecu. Even Chris now is using stock MMC ones.

    How come there are sellers that are selling bolt on turbo kits in the marketplace whom claims that carburetor also can bolt on turbo? And they did it too? Do they have any special equipment or anything? Hope they can give some ideas here.
     
  9. SkYwAlKeR

    SkYwAlKeR Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    10,149
    Likes Received:
    300
    if u plans to turbocharge the engine, yes u need at least a piggyback ecu... because stock oem ecu works almost similar to carburetors... u cannot tune the fuel mapping according to engine rpm and engine load.... with a piggyback ecu, u can easily do dat.... injecting more fuel when boost spools etc....

    but from what i read from oversea articles, it is not impossible to bolt on turbo to carburetor engine.... jz dat tuning is harder and not feasible for everyday ride...
    bot carbie engine has 2 method... blow through or suck through...

    in the blow through method, carburetor is placed after the turbine... means the air enters the carburetor is already pressurized... for this i not sure oem carburetors can handle the positive pressure or not... not to mention, it is hard to tune the AFR mixture...

    suck through method however is much simpler... carburetor is placed before the turbine.... means the air blowing through the carburetor is negative pressure (similar to NA).... tuning is much simpler but there are a couple of downside... u cannot use an intercooler and AFR mixture reaching ur engine will varies alot due to lost of fuel when it travels through the turbine and pipings....
     
  10. SoYouThinkYouCanDrive

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    15
    Just dump your car n get a new one, proton is not reliable at all
     
  11. scorpiod

    scorpiod Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks again Skywalker.

    How to tune the air ratio for carburetor? Which part of the car to tune it? Around what ratio does it need? I see sellers such as Klg*uto or Ft*one are selling those parts. I wonder if they could give me some tips here on how to bolt a turbo on a carburetor engine? Klg*uto is selling the bolt on kits for carburetors too. I wonder how it works.

    Soyouthinkyoucandrive, thank you for your realistic idea. Indeed it is easier to purchase a better car if I want the power but for now, I just want to install for fun. Somemore, buying a car is not like modifying it. Its not about Proton being reliable or not, but its a hobby. Thats why I am in this Car Modification section.
     
  12. zamiex

    zamiex Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    11
    some pic for BOT carb
    source SIC forum

    [​IMG]
     
  13. loose_end

    loose_end Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,949
    Likes Received:
    197
    Hey everyone , super noob here..Erm , is the setup for bolt on turbo equals to stock proton 4g15 ? and is stock proton engine is carburetor ?
     
  14. radhie

    radhie Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    51
    what about the horsepower?
     
  15. scorpiod

    scorpiod Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Zamiex for the photo. Do you mind to tell more about the picture? Such as what is installed/replaced and how to tune it?

    Looseand, not all Proton 1.5 engines are carburetor. There are fuel injections too.
     
  16. viostar

    viostar Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hey Chris,...

    Do you mind to upload you car engine picture show us about your BOT?

    R u drive 4g13 engine as well, cos I'm quite interest to get my ride BOT too. I'm driving WIRA A/B 4g13...

    Where did you BOT your ride? I wanna to send my car over to have a check & get more detail on the BOT thing.

    Appreciate your prompt reply.

    Thanks.:top:
     
  17. SkYwAlKeR

    SkYwAlKeR Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    10,149
    Likes Received:
    300
    air fuel ratio is adjusted at the carburetor lor... normal ratio is around 14.6:1 of air:fuel ratio... of coz the ratio varies a little during acceleration, deceleration, cruise, etc...
     
  18. scorpiod

    scorpiod Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe can adjust more fuel in the system? Such as maintaining the fuel at 50% extra than normal one the standard one? Then the engine would have around 50% fuel extra to support the turbo when it spools. Even in lower rpm, the fuel would be more than usual also. Maybe the gear can be shifted at a constant rpm each time?

    I have these ideas in my mind. I wonder if they can be applied. If can, it would be a good thing for those people who want to set up a carburetor turbo system.
    -Adjusting the fuel more than normal so that when turbo spools, the fuel would be enough.
    -Set the boost at a limit so that there would not be a shortage in the fuel when the turbo boost higher.
    -Each rpm shift in gears need to be around the same so that the extra fuel would be used.
    -Attach one extra external electric fuel pump so when you want to rev to a higher rpm, there is a switch to open and more fuel will flow in. Meaning to say when normal driving around 2-3krpm, only the stock fuel pump is used and when want to have some turbo feel, switch on the external fuel pump so that there would be extra fuel in the system. Can this be applied?

    I still need a rough idea about how to adjust the air ratio.
     
  19. zamiex

    zamiex Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    11
    how about this one carbie webber with ar60 turbo?

    [​IMG]

    If not mistaken, its difficult to tune turbo on carb engine, but also have oem carb turbo car from daihatsu..

    for carb to install turbo can just do basic installation turbo without intercooler and bov.
    my 2 cent je..
     
  20. SkYwAlKeR

    SkYwAlKeR Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    10,149
    Likes Received:
    300
    - not possible with carburetor as we dont have ECU to control the fuel mapping...
    - as long as u're using wastegate, there is a boost limit... yes u need dat...
    - this one depends on gearbox ratio.... short ratio gearbox allows u to do this...
    - i dont think it is feasible if u manage to make it work....

    another sample of suck-thru bot carbie... on single weber dcoe...

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page