open pod vs drop-in

[darkemperor]

anyone can enlight me on which is better...im always a spoon fan and from wat i know they prefer the drop in to have better torque at midrange.....i dont know if this related to their venturi tb that actually helps to increase the flow instead of using the open pod...im aware of the heat effect on the open pod..other than that?

wat about the performance n wat is the most preferable one for vtec...

 

[crower75]

Many school of thoughts on this. Just try it out yourself to be sure.

Last week I saw a standard B16A Ferio beat Toyota Blacktop 4 throttle + TODA flywheel + AFC Neo in a match. Won 2 out of 3. The Ferio was using OEM air box and air ram.

 

[darkemperor]

Many school of thoughts on this. Just try it out yourself to be sure.

Last week I saw a standard B16A Ferio beat Toyota Blacktop 4 throttle + TODA flywheel + AFC Neo in a match. Won 2 out of 3. The Ferio was using OEM air box and air ram.

crower....yup there are alot of comments on having this 2 type of filter....even the oiled k&n also got bad vote due to the flow is restricted by the oil, HKS is giving bad filtering n so on.....at last the oem is still the best...:hmmmm:

dunno..just looking for a cheaper way to increase 1 or 2 ponies out from the stock...

 

[shiroitenshi]

Yup HKS filter best flow but also gets dirty the easiest. I simply change it every six months (or so, because if the back of the element gets brownish.. I toss them.. no particular timespan actually)

Stock airbox, dunno lah how can win, because use accelerometer, got less 5-10hp with the LM-1/Auxbox. Maybe that guy was using stock airbox without filter element? :P

 

[darkemperor]

let say if i have the stock air box but i incrase the opening of it instead of lotsa bending and small opening...will it improve the air flow...? wat we are looking actually the flow not the pressure am i right shiro?

for an NA wat is the pressure in the intake...1 barg...? wat about the air flow..400cfm? i am not sure...

 

[shiroitenshi]

let say if i have the stock air box but i incrase the opening of it instead of lotsa bending and small opening...will it improve the air flow...? wat we are looking actually the flow not the pressure am i right shiro?

for an NA wat is the pressure in the intake...1 barg...? wat about the air flow..400cfm? i am not sure...

Actually if you have MAP sensor/manifold pressure sensor reading it would be good way to know if flow is restricted or not.
(I saw a kancil having it, it's like a boost meter, but stops at 0, no 1bar/2bar etc.) Dunno what brand, something from taiwan.

At idle, our throttle plate fully closed, makes about. 70Kpa or so of vaccum (depending on engine, it could be more). (this is atmospheric reading, the same like all boost meters)

At WOT, our throttle plate fully open, it's 0Kpa or zero vacuum. Ideally, with ram air intake, you can get slightly positive pressure, maybe up to 1 psi, but in my case, it only happens sometimes, depending on temperature and speed. (I'm using HKS open pod with no CAI and no Air piping from bumper.)

So if you've driven a boosted car, look at the boost meter and notice that the car idles at somewhere below 0, (that's the vacuum part) and as you punch the throttle, you will see that the meter climbs to 0 (that's the turbine spooling) and then past 0 (boost is still spooling, but started providing boost)

But we don't have boost, so, in cases where your engine can pump air as much as the intake/TB allows without restriction, the pressure at the manifold at WOT should be (0Kpa/no vacuum/atmospheric pressure)

But if your throttle body and/or your intake are a source restriction, you will see vacuum in your intake manifold pressure. It means that the engine is now trying to suck more air than what your TB/intake can flow, causing the vacuum. That's why at part throttle, you always have vacuum in your intake manifold, because the the engine capacity is trying to pump 1595cc for each revolution (or whatever your engine is) but the TB only lets in xx% amount depending on your throttle plate opening, causing the vacuum.

*note this is simplified, and engine doesn't pump 1595cc of air just because it's displacement is 'only 1595', because at high rpm, there are other factors that can help the engine push more than 1595cc of air+fuel.

This is just something I figured out when playing with Innovate's LM-1/auxbox and hondata.

Many school of thoughts on this. Just try it out yourself to be sure.

Last week I saw a standard B16A Ferio beat Toyota Blacktop 4 throttle + TODA flywheel + AFC Neo in a match. Won 2 out of 3. The Ferio was using OEM air box and air ram.

Actually I haven't heard of Toyota Blacktop whacking the shit out of most B16As, is it common that a Toyota 4AG can possibly whack a B16A with light mods?

 

[fobs]

nice explanation

i do have a MAP sensor,... manifold absolute pressure,...
nowhere to show the reading though,...

 

[shiroitenshi]

nice explanation

i do have a MAP sensor,... manifold absolute pressure,...
nowhere to show the reading though,...

Actually I remember seeing that meter on the kancil like maybe 5 years ago.. haven't seen one like it recently. Forgot what was the name on the box. Vacuum meter maybe? Really don't remember the name.

 

[darkemperor]

shiro...mind sharing, u got all the stuff like hondata, s2, innovate directly form the US?

 

[J101]

thats one thing abt air filters, u gotta change when it starts to crumble and harden. every 6 months is a good time to change.

Yup HKS filter best flow but also gets dirty the easiest. I simply change it every six months (or so, because if the back of the element gets brownish.. I toss them.. no particular timespan actually)

 

[10KRPM]

Drop in pod filter for the win. Yes you dont get that vtec bark compared to an open pod but VTEC motors are very sensitive to heat! WHen i ran 400m in champion dragway in April this year, i ran consistent 14.8 - 14.9 all day with the close box and when i ran open box, i manage to only nail consistent 15.0 - 15.2. The heat does effect your performance. Drop in for the win... If you ever feel the urge of wanting the vtec sound, you can always open the top part of the box to get that mad VTAX sound!

 

[lan evo]

quote from sipoon

im using the arc chamber with stock airbox,will order the in box filter from spoon soon

i felt diffrence in response when i use the arc intake chamber with stock airbox compare to stock rubber hose without filter

last time tried hks,apexi and cap ayam.felt apexi the best.

now want to try stock airbox with spoon filter

 

[shiroitenshi]

shiro...mind sharing, u got all the stuff like hondata, s2, innovate directly form the US?

Not really, because once you do it for a while, the prices aren't that cheap, and there's a bit of hassle with the kastam when calculating import taxes.

After all that, the prices aren't that cheap anymore.

The innovate kit is one example.. it is more expensive buying it online through e-retailers.

Another example, an MSD billet ignition, you cannot bring in yourself cheaper than what KSP offers. I'm still thinking of getting it, and hopefully ditching the failure prone honda distributor, but my distributor is at 100,000km mileage (plus the halfcut mileage, it's around 200,000km+ and still working (yes, I find it hard to believe myself.)

Most of my friends that had them that long had them failed at least once.. just hope mine survives till I can get the MSD's one, but the price is like double (or more) of that of a new honda original, so save up slow-slow le.

The only way you can find stuff cheaper than what the shop sells is through Ebay or Yahoo auctions, but even that is not so straightforward.. The taxes and the S&H usually inflates the price, and well, the manufacturers don't really like supporting people that buy their products off eBay.

The only stuff I brought in direct from US is an ST-Tech anti roll bar (which is no longer in my possession), and a few other things like fuel regulator and filter/intake kit from AEM.

Nowdays, you can get from local shops like KSP, Pentagon, etc. KSP and Pentagon has quite an inventory of US Performance parts, so you can hit them up for those. AEM is still not available locally yet, I think.

Bringing individually was the only option when most shops didn't carry them years ago.. nowdays, they can bring in cheaper than what you can buy online from major e-retailers, direct currency conversion seems cheaper at first, but when shipping starts at USD80, and gets more expensive with weight, you tend to realise the total price when it reaches here.

Bodykits are the worst, as one unit that was brought in for a friend more than doubled in price due to S&H. Big packages = hefty shipping.

Hondata is ordered, yes, direct from US. No shops have them in stock right now I think.

Innovate, I got from KSP. I had issues with a first auxbox unit (the display was a bit problematic) and they gave me one on one exchange. If I had bought it straight from US, I'd have to get it RMA'ed, and that is not cheap and it takes time as well. So, given an option, I'd rather buy from a local distributor/dealer, because of the easier support.

Electronic items are fickle.. you might get unlucky and get one that is defective, so it pays to buy it from a place that give support/warranty on the items.

S2 Parts, you can get from Pentagon if you're in KL.

Even Kelantan also has an S2 items now, a couple of my friends with shops are stocking them.

 

[shiroitenshi]

quote from sipoon

im using the arc chamber with stock airbox,will order the in box filter from spoon soon

i felt diffrence in response when i use the arc intake chamber with stock airbox compare to stock rubber hose without filter

last time tried hks,apexi and cap ayam.felt apexi the best.

now want to try stock airbox with spoon filter

Let me know of the experience. I sort of think the spoon filter is too much in terms of the asking price.

So far, friends that I know of never had good experience with the fat tube, but seems like a lot of people like them.

But from what I've noticed, for NA hondas, long pipes are better than shorter pipes, seem to have better results with those.

Going to get to try some quads soon (not on my compression leaking engine) so hopefully can see what kind of difference quads provide.. reading about them is one thing, trying it out yourself and trying to tune it is another.

 

[shiroitenshi]

Drop in pod filter for the win. Yes you dont get that vtec bark compared to an open pod but VTEC motors are very sensitive to heat! WHen i ran 400m in champion dragway in April this year, i ran consistent 14.8 - 14.9 all day with the close box and when i ran open box, i manage to only nail consistent 15.0 - 15.2. The heat does effect your performance. Drop in for the win... If you ever feel the urge of wanting the vtec sound, you can always open the top part of the box to get that mad VTAX sound!

That's true, temps play a big part.

I believe it's something to do with the way the ECU handles fuelling and ignition. Playing with hondata, I realized that even with the stock ECU, the fueling and ignition is compensated depending on IAT as well, which is why cold intakes seems to give better performance.

But if you noticed track cars from various j-manufacturers, they actually run open pods, so I think by reducing compensation on the ECU based on IAT, open pods can achieve the performance as well.

For mine, stock airbox gave me worst performance, but we all know that depending on situation, the mileage may vary. So testing is the best way.

I like AEM's intake, but worries of hydrolock abounds if its used as a daily driver... too many rainwater filled potholes in Malaysia. if 50cc or so of water gets into the engine.. bye bye engine.. (O_o)