Advise please: coating first or paint protection film first?

scoutfai

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Nov 3, 2013
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I am driving a silver myvi. Re-painted recently in Perodua.

Thinking to install paint protection film from a local brand (so it is not 3M Venture Shield which is super expensive but same function as 3M Venture Shield) on my full hood and full front bumper to protect from rock chip damage. I do not know why my car so prompt to rock chip damage, I do not tale gate other car. Wondering is it Alesco Kansai paint (the OEM paint brand) is soft.

At the same time, I also want to install Optimum Pro Coating (not Optimum 2.0).

Both are quite expensive investment, at a more or less same amount. Well girl likes make up guy likes car, so if you are reading this I expect you understand why I willing to spend.

Now here comes the headache. For my hood and front bumper, should I install the paint protection film first, or the Optimum Pro coating first?

I share what I think, but I wish to hear your advise and opinion too.

My survey results:

1) Film installer recommends me to do film first then coating later. Because:

(a) Adhesion concern. They think that with a coating already installed, the film will have lesser strength bonded to the car panel. Though they still feel the strength will still be good enough, but having more adhesion strength will not harm.

(b) Coating being hydrophobic, they concern that when washing car with high pressure water jet, the water stream might enter at the edge of the film, and trapped under the film, causing air bubble, or start of peeling. But I never wash car with high pressure pump, though I cannot guarantee in future I might invest into one. However I think one can always be caution a bit when come to the area with film installed. So I do not feel this issue as concerning as the (a).

(c) Film installer claims from their experience, coating on top of film give the better shine and gloss compare to film on top of coating.

2) From reading through various internet forum thread, it is very well demonstrated that the film is not bullet proof, it can be scratched, damaged, abused just like the clear coat does, regardless of brand (but the paint underneath is safe, or at least this is what I read). So overtime it will accumulate sufficient amount of scratch and swirl which reduce the gloss of car. So usually owner replace a new film like few years later. Optimum pro coating will last longer than this. So if one was to install film first then coating, then each time the film is re-install, the coating will be gone. Although one can buy an Optimum 2.0 and DIY after new film installed to save cost, but if the coat was done prior to film then this procedure can be avoided.

3) I have emailed Optimum Australia, they said no problem whether install film first or coating first.

4) I have emailed and telephone 3M, they too said no problem for their film to adhere on top of coating, just emphasize that the hydrophobic quality of coating will not reveal since it is covered by film. I am not installing 3M film but I use this advise as a reference. Since the film installer also told me that they did coat first film later on several cars before also and face no adhesion problem so I think their film behave the same like 3M in term of adhesion on top of coating.

--- --- ---

As for myself, I prefer coating first then film later, the sole reason is to save cost only. I am pretty confidence with the quality of the coating as I have read up a lot of good review on it but the film is a first try. So in case of film failure or damage, even if I do not wish to re-install a film again, I still have a permanent coating on my hood and front bumper.

Although hydrophobic property of coating will be hidden by film, I am guy who regularly wash car. I do not mind waxing on top of the film occasionally to add the water beading effect on top of the film.


If you are a paint protection film user, can share your user experience with me?
Others' opinion and advise too are most welcomed. I might have overlook some aspect.


Remark: Some suggested me using PlastiDIP clear or PlastiDIP glossifier. Actually in my opinion both are not truly transparent, at least not as transparent as film. Some also suggested me using the 3M Paint Defender System, which is a cheaper alternative to film. I have considered that but I prefer something more long lasting as to something I have to re-apply annually.
 
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scoutfai

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Nov 3, 2013
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wah, u wanna spend so much on a myvi ah?
anyways u could contact St1l
Yes that's the plan. I am not rich neither that's why I can't afford to do 3M Venture Shield which easily cost a thousand for a panel. Now this local film brand hood + front bumper is slightly below 2K so relatively speaking more affordable than 3M.

Of course I do not expect every one to understand it and I do not disagree with them when they feel it is not worthy to spend so much on maintaining look.
I prefer something long lasting. So wax is good but coating is definitely much longer. I have coat before so I appreciate the convenience brought by coating. But this time I am trying Optimum which is even more longer lasting.

As for the film it is because I suffered a lot of rock chip. Touch up till I feel tire of doing it and touch up will never give perfect match so I want to give an once and for all solution. Like I said, I prefer long lasting solution. Some will just give it a re-spray few years time but I have considered that and think the different color tone is something unacceptable.

Well I do not expect people who visit engine, ICE & other sections of this forum understand why I care so much on how the car looks but this is a detailing thread so if you are reading this then I guess you understand my personal enthusiasm and insistence on show car finish.

I also treat this as a learning procedure before I invest into another car in future.

Btw, thanks for your reply and may I know who is the guy you mention? a detailer, or a film installer, or someone with experience in using both?
 
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fazidk

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Bro scoutfai I disagree wiz ur statement regards to brand of paint/lacquer prone to stone chips...alesco is a very reputable brand despite saying it 'soft' hence d easiness to get stone chips..BUT...there is a but...it depends on d grade used (yes they come in various grades...from normal to HS)...tho i suspect pero2 to use d bottom line grade or average...alternatively u can use glasurit which is very well known around d globe to be 'hard' but it x eliminate stone chips (tho it reduces quite substantially...but quite costly)...I think it's OEM for cars like merc n Beemer (sports version eg brabus n M series)...I'm x trying to promote since I'm a spray painter s this is x d place to do so but proof behold I've used glasurit on my rusty wira (just d front end) for about 4yrs or so n u can actually count how many visible chips there r..

Bottom line is u x eliminate stone chips whether u tail gate or x...it's everywhere..u can reduce it wiz products claiming (or proven) to stop it but at a high cost of coz...But s I read ur thread I can fully understand n respect what ur willing to spend n go thru to make ur beloved ride s perfect s possible n thumbs up for that....n for u
 
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scoutfai

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Nov 3, 2013
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Bro scoutfai I disagree wiz ur statement regards to brand of paint/lacquer prone to stone chips...alesco is a very reputable brand despite saying it 'soft' hence d easiness to get stone chips..BUT...there is a but...it depends on d grade used (yes they come in various grades...from normal to HS)...tho i suspect pero2 to use d bottom line grade or average...alternatively u can use glasurit which is very well known around d globe to be 'hard' but it x eliminate stone chips (tho it reduces quite substantially...but quite costly)...I think it's OEM for cars like merc n Beemer (sports version eg brabus n M series)...I'm x trying to promote since I'm a spray painter s this is x d place to do so but proof behold I've used glasurit on my rusty wira (just d front end) for about 4yrs or so n u can actually count how many visible chips there r..

Bottom line is u x eliminate stone chips whether u tail gate or x...it's everywhere..u can reduce it wiz products claiming (or proven) to stop it but at a high cost of coz...But s I read ur thread I can fully understand n respect what ur willing to spend n go thru to make ur beloved ride s perfect s possible n thumbs up for that....n for u
Hi bro fazidk. Thanks for your comment!
No no, I do not claim Alesco Kansai paint is soft by default, I just wondering only. Now that you clarify it as a painter then I will have that doubt eliminated.
Talk about glasurit, you read my mind bro! But I am not saying I wish to do a base coat of glasurit. Actually I have been looking at the following product of clear coat from Glasurit:

http://www.glasurit.com/glasurit-923-447-hs-clear-scratch-resistant-voc

I have manage to find someone in Subang Jaya who claim they willing to order it and spray for me on top of a cheaper brand base coat (example Alesco Kansai) as long as I willing to pay for the extra cost. So my plan is, if the car manage to hold up, says, 7 years later, then maybe I will respray again, but the clear coat I use the above product. I am aware that even local brand like HIPIC has high solid (HS) grade clear coat, but so far this Glasurit is the only one claim to design for scratch resistant purpose.

I too have email to Glasurit Malaysia distributor but they do not reply me, so I got to do more home work myself to know more about the cost involve. But that will happen slowly, since my car just been re-spray FOC by Perodua as a warranty claim, I do not foresee I have any need to re-spray again, touch wood unless accident.

Since you are a painter and you have experience using Glasurit, mind to PM me your shop address, in future could be in contact with you.

Yes I highly agree, rock chip cannot be escaped for a daily driver on Malaysia road. And yes indeed all the protection product available in Malaysia for rock chip protection is very expensive, they are definitely targeting at super car market. But just like a car performance amateur will feel annoyed by a slight delay in engine response, I as an amateur in detailing too easily get annoyed by the little dot dot rock chip on my car. Which is why I am planning to do it.

BTW, as a painter, may I ask you, could you top up a layer (or multiple) of hard clear coat (example that Glasurit I mention) on top of existing paint clear coat of a car?
 

KrisMas

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Apr 1, 2008
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I have no idea which is better, but I had tried Venture Shield and a couple of other 'cheaper' protection film on my previous ride. May I just put another matter into considerations:

It is said that the real value of VS is the quality of adhesive it utilise. It makes the removal easy and would cause minimum, if at all, damage to the paintwork (if I'm not mistaken in the US 3M warrantied it against these kind of damages). You might want to ask your installer for some info on the one that's you're installing.

I had VS before on just the front portion of my bonnet and it was easy to remove and the adhesive just melted away with some mineral spirit. And, like you, I was a little short on budget and decided for a cheaper alternative for the bumper and guess what....I had to respray the whole bumper after the removal of the film. I had paint peeling and sticking to the film, adhesive hardened and BONDED to the paint and, here and there bits and pieces of torn film that just wouldn't want to come off. Maybe it was due to the different type of paint or base used for the bonnet and bumper but, after I did some research on 3M, I wouldn't trust anything but 3M when it come to adhesives of any kind (double sided tape, masking tape, etc.).

I did try a few different waxes and sealants on the VS though. Beading didn't last too long as compare to applying them on paint and not much shine either.

Saying all that, I've read and seen most foreign pro detailers would polish, put the film on then only do the coating. Why they decide do that in that sequence I don't know.....

Sorry, but I don't think I'm much of a help here.....
 

fazidk

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Nov 18, 2003
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Hi bro..thanx for ur comment...but let me clarify when I mentioned glasurit I meant d clear coat/lacquer (my bad hehe)...

Yes ur rite every brand (local n world knowned) has their 'version' of HS aka Hi Solid lacquer...BUT...terms of quality n lasting is d question...manufacturers will claim their respective product warranty 5yrs...7yrs but when claiming they will drag on n on n find fault (x most biz do that eg. Insurance,buying a car etc etc)....anyway for me I stick to a few brands that I've used n to my experience r good brands n at least deliver some of their 'claims'..glasurit is 1 of them (costly tho n only based on customer requirement)...

As for ur question whether can spray new lacquer on old lacquer?d answer is technically YES..tho u stil have to sand off d old lacquer...this among other things depends on d current condition of d car...x point doing that if u have small dents or chips or whatever that may need puttying n all...d cost is similar or just slightly less then getting d whole car resprayed...

N oh ya do check out my FB for sample pics of rides I've done...FZ Hauz of Kalerz

Tq n looking forward hearing from u


Hi bro fazidk. Thanks for your comment!
No no, I do not claim Alesco Kansai paint is soft by default, I just wondering only. Now that you clarify it as a painter then I will have that doubt eliminated.
Talk about glasurit, you read my mind bro! But I am not saying I wish to do a base coat of glasurit. Actually I have been looking at the following product of clear coat from Glasurit:

http://www.glasurit.com/glasurit-923-447-hs-clear-scratch-resistant-voc

I have manage to find someone in Subang Jaya who claim they willing to order it and spray for me on top of a cheaper brand base coat (example Alesco Kansai) as long as I willing to pay for the extra cost. So my plan is, if the car manage to hold up, says, 7 years later, then maybe I will respray again, but the clear coat I use the above product. I am aware that even local brand like HIPIC has high solid (HS) grade clear coat, but so far this Glasurit is the only one claim to design for scratch resistant purpose.

I too have email to Glasurit Malaysia distributor but they do not reply me, so I got to do more home work myself to know more about the cost involve. But that will happen slowly, since my car just been re-spray FOC by Perodua as a warranty claim, I do not foresee I have any need to re-spray again, touch wood unless accident.

Since you are a painter and you have experience using Glasurit, mind to PM me your shop address, in future could be in contact with you.

Yes I highly agree, rock chip cannot be escaped for a daily driver on Malaysia road. And yes indeed all the protection product available in Malaysia for rock chip protection is very expensive, they are definitely targeting at super car market. But just like a car performance amateur will feel annoyed by a slight delay in engine response, I as an amateur in detailing too easily get annoyed by the little dot dot rock chip on my car. Which is why I am planning to do it.

BTW, as a painter, may I ask you, could you top up a layer (or multiple) of hard clear coat (example that Glasurit I mention) on top of existing paint clear coat of a car?
 
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s1tl

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wah, u wanna spend so much on a myvi ah?
anyways u could contact St1l
apa la me again...

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

Dear TS,

Since im a known contributor in this section, I will give you some insights on what I think and what I would do if it was my car. As many here know, I do detailing, professional or no, its not me to judge but my customers and my portfolio for the viewers to judge but here I am to give you this advice.

Firstly, Optimum Coating does not prevent stone chips or even so protect your paint from stone chips, but because of the hardness of the coating after its fully cured you will gain a degree of scratch resistance and also durability over the paint but bare in mind, when I say it does not prevent against stone chip, I mean it. I am not saying that Optimum Coating is not good but for that particular feature, if you are looking for a 100% prevention, No, Opti-Coat Pro is not the way to go. <<<<I just lost 1 potential customer everytime someone reads this :rofl:

The question whether Opti-Coat Pro can be applied onto either 3M Ventura Shield or other 9mil clear bra film, Yes it can. Why? Simply because these films are all plastic, and Opti-Coat Pro works on Plastic. The installation of these films will give you a full prevention from stone chips because of its thickness and its a film, thats whats its made to do. Applying the coating onto the film will increase the gloss and shine of the paint, because the film is a clear plastic film, if you even notice your secondary school text book transparent wrapper, it is transparent but it is not 100% clear transparent. Same goes to these films. After applying these films onto the paint, if you apply the coating, you will only gain the hydrophobic function. Thats it.

Plastic Films, whichever the brand will always be thicker and harder than coating. Coating relies on the foundation of the paint to be thick or hard. If the OEM paint of that particular car I am applying the coating on is a good clear coated paint, the coating will function even better. If its on a shitty paint, the coating will simply improve the clear coat but it will still be not as good as the already good ones. A simple example will be. Applying Opti-Coat Pro onto a Bently Continental GT which factory comes with 14 layers of ceramic clear coat will increase the hardness madly, while at the same time, applying Opti-Coat pro to a Honda Civic which factory comes with a normal quality clear coat will only increase the hardness to maybe a VW grade clear coat. Its the matter of increasing the durability of the clear coat. Most people think that, oh this coating comes with XX hardness XX thickness which Yes the coating specifications does says that but when applied onto the paint its a different story. All coating rely on the Clear Coat itself thats why I do a full surface preparation which is about 3hrs long before I even start to think about the Coating application.

If you ask me, Would i Coat first then do the film or should i Film and coat? I would say, I would coat first then film. Simply because If i coat first, I will be protecting the clear coat from any discoloration, oxidation, and protection against the adhersive used on the film. If I apply the coating after the film, I would not increase any gloss or shine and only got the hydrophobic function. But of course, the best scenario would be Coat first, Apply Film, Coat on the film again.

If you are planning to apply a film, please please please go respray your bumper before you apply the film, because it would look like shit if you have chips here and there after applying the film. Your small touch ups, i presume its the pen touch up or the small bottle of paint like nail polish will only fill the colour but not smoothen the already nicked part.

Why you cant prevent stone chips from coating? Its simple, amplify the situation, if the small stone that hit your car at XXKM/H was a pebble size stone. How would your car be damaged? That small stone hit your car at XXKM/H is something like that hence the paint will be chipped off.

What I found out over the years doing Opti-Coat Pro is that stone chips still occur but the chances of a full paint chipped off is lower, Mostly the chips are found to be dented but the paint it still there. I personally travel 5000km per month, yes meaning to say i service my car monthly. Traveling on the highway is a norm for me and stone chips are bound to happen but my car had been coated for a very long time and to date, the chips are mostly still with the paint in tact and just dented in, it still looks ugly if you are looking near but of course when your standing at a distance you cant see it. For a uncoated car, the paint will be chipped and the surface dented.

Lastly, I would like to stress that, any clear coat will have stone chip problems, swirls problem, scratch problem even for ceramic clear coat whether dupont, whether its the "bird brand" (cant rmb the name) even the extremely hard clear coat Bently and Audi R8 still has surface defects. Thats where the detailers come in and work their magic. ;)

P/S: If you apply clear bra, the expensive brand of course 3M ventura shield, there are also alternatives like Oracle. but if you do not clean your car alot, and minimal care for paint stains and cleanliness, this following line will be very very obvious, stains will catch at this cap between the film and the paint. and if you notice, the film are is not a very clear and mirror looking surface.


Hope i got all your queries, if anymore please do leave a message and i can "keyboard warrior mode" again
 
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scoutfai

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Nov 3, 2013
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I have no idea which is better, but I had tried Venture Shield and a couple of other 'cheaper' protection film on my previous ride. May I just put another matter into considerations.....
Thanks KrisMas. You helped a lot. Don't say like you are not contributing anything.

Mind to share what other alternative film brand you had tried other than the 3M Venture Shield?
Currently I only manage to find one alternative which its brand name is InvisibleShield. It's a pre-opening business, only has a FB page so far but have done quite a lot of super car.

I have talked with the 3M manager over the telephone before regarding effect of removing the Venture Shield on paint. 3M only dare to claim that if the paint is OEM factory paint from the 1st day, then removal will cause no issue. However if the paint is respray, then nothing can be guaranteed. Since my car has been respray so I think even 3M cannot guarantee removal of film will be 100% not pulling paint out of surface, let alone other cheaper brand.
As for the InvisibleShield, I have not yet ask this question before. Good that you bring it up. I will inquire them.

Since you are an user of both 3M Venture Shield and alternative film, can I ask:

1) What is your review on the effectiveness of 3M Venture Shield on your hood in term of rock chip protection? Same question goes to the alternative film on your bumper.

2) You said you removed the 3M Venture Shield from your hood and the alternative film from your bumper. May I know why to remove them? and how many years since installation till removal? Is your car paint that time OEM paint since 1st day?

3) So you mean during removal, 3M Venture Shield comes right off easily in one piece, where as the alternative film breaks up into smaller pieces and some pieces just will not removed out from the panel?

4) In term of level of transparency, can you describe a little bit on the 3M Venture shield and alternative film from your personal feeling? Do they as clear as "invisible" or they are more toward opaque side? Which one more clear?

5) So do you still use any film after your removal that time?

Actually the removal process might peel off some paint from the car panel is one of the reason I feel like doing coating first then film later.

Yes, in oversea, most pro detailer do coating on top of film, I think because of their customer prefer glossy more, so they adapt to their customer preference. Just mt guess though.

---------- Post added at 03:21 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:36 AM ----------

apa la me again...

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

Dear TS,

Since im a known contributor in this section, I will give you some insights on what I think and what I would do if it was my car. As many here know, I do detailing, professional or no, its not me to judge but my customers......
Big thank you for you on the detail comment. A lot of insight.

I do aware that Optimum Pro coating, or any other kind of 9H coating, does not provide rock chip protection. The reason I am planning to do coating and film not because I feel this can give me double rock chip protection. I want to do coating is to maintain shine and gloss, prevent oxidation and increase convenience in maintaining cleanliness. The film is indeed intended for rock chip protection.

Your suggestion of coat first, film, then coat on top of film again sounds creative! But very costly leh. Maybe Optimum pro coat, then film, then Optimum 2.0 consumer coat DIY for the sake of saving budget is a more practical way for average income guy like me.

My touch up experience is from last paint, meaning the OEM paint from the 1st day. That time suffered a lot of rock chips, every time I found one I just use the AutoSpa touch up paint, drop tiny little dot of paint onto the chip. It's actually almost invisible from few feet away, as I use sharp plastic stick to lightly put the touch up paint instead of using brush to sweep over it. After my car was re-spray, I have yet to do any touch up on the hood and front bumper, as there are no obvious chip yet. But I know it is just a matter of time.

You suggested that I re-spray my panel first before apply the film, yes that sounds very reasonable but I think the issue face by people who owns only one car is we need to let the just re-spray panel paint cure and out-gasing for at least 30 days first. So in this interval the car will still be driving around, and hence subject to rock chip damage. It is really a matter a luck at the end of the curing waiting period, the re-spray panel has no new rock chip at all. I am currently in this situation but I see I have no choice lo.

BTW the bird brand paint is Glasurit LOL. yah that little bird but cost like aeroplane.

First time heard of the Oracle brand. Is it something available in Malaysia market? I see a lot of brand but mostly not available in Malaysia.

I am planning to do a whole hood and whole front bumper, because of concern that you mentioned, stain builds up at the boundary. So by doing whole panel I should eliminate or reduce this problem.
Nevertheless I wash my car on weekly basic.

Thanks for showing up a picture. Is this 3M Venture Shield, or Oracle, or something else?
The difference in transparency is a obvious, compare to the black BMW I saw in Bukit Jalil car exhibition last time (with 3M Venture Shield installed), I can't even tell there is a film until the staff told me to look at the corner.

Million thanks for all the blood left by you on your keyboard. Very generous person you are in sharing thought.
 

s1tl

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Jul 13, 2010
1,237
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713
Ipoh/KL
Thanks KrisMas. You helped a lot. Don't say like you are not contributing anything.

Mind to share what other alternative film brand you had tried other than the 3M Venture Shield?
Currently I only manage to find one alternative which its brand name is InvisibleShield. It's a pre-opening business, only has a FB page so far but have done quite a lot of super car.

I have talked with the 3M manager over the telephone before regarding effect of removing the Venture Shield on paint. 3M only dare to claim that if the paint is OEM factory paint from the 1st day, then removal will cause no issue. However if the paint is respray, then nothing can be guaranteed. Since my car has been respray so I think even 3M cannot guarantee removal of film will be 100% not pulling paint out of surface, let alone other cheaper brand.
As for the InvisibleShield, I have not yet ask this question before. Good that you bring it up. I will inquire them.

Since you are an user of both 3M Venture Shield and alternative film, can I ask:

1) What is your review on the effectiveness of 3M Venture Shield on your hood in term of rock chip protection? Same question goes to the alternative film on your bumper.

2) You said you removed the 3M Venture Shield from your hood and the alternative film from your bumper. May I know why to remove them? and how many years since installation till removal? Is your car paint that time OEM paint since 1st day?

3) So you mean during removal, 3M Venture Shield comes right off easily in one piece, where as the alternative film breaks up into smaller pieces and some pieces just will not removed out from the panel?

4) In term of level of transparency, can you describe a little bit on the 3M Venture shield and alternative film from your personal feeling? Do they as clear as "invisible" or they are more toward opaque side? Which one more clear?

5) So do you still use any film after your removal that time?

Actually the removal process might peel off some paint from the car panel is one of the reason I feel like doing coating first then film later.

Yes, in oversea, most pro detailer do coating on top of film, I think because of their customer prefer glossy more, so they adapt to their customer preference. Just mt guess though.

---------- Post added at 03:21 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:36 AM ----------



Big thank you for you on the detail comment. A lot of insight.

I do aware that Optimum Pro coating, or any other kind of 9H coating, does not provide rock chip protection. The reason I am planning to do coating and film not because I feel this can give me double rock chip protection. I want to do coating is to maintain shine and gloss, prevent oxidation and increase convenience in maintaining cleanliness. The film is indeed intended for rock chip protection.

Your suggestion of coat first, film, then coat on top of film again sounds creative! But very costly leh. Maybe Optimum pro coat, then film, then Optimum 2.0 consumer coat DIY for the sake of saving budget is a more practical way for average income guy like me.

My touch up experience is from last paint, meaning the OEM paint from the 1st day. That time suffered a lot of rock chips, every time I found one I just use the AutoSpa touch up paint, drop tiny little dot of paint onto the chip. It's actually almost invisible from few feet away, as I use sharp plastic stick to lightly put the touch up paint instead of using brush to sweep over it. After my car was re-spray, I have yet to do any touch up on the hood and front bumper, as there are no obvious chip yet. But I know it is just a matter of time.

You suggested that I re-spray my panel first before apply the film, yes that sounds very reasonable but I think the issue face by people who owns only one car is we need to let the just re-spray panel paint cure and out-gasing for at least 30 days first. So in this interval the car will still be driving around, and hence subject to rock chip damage. It is really a matter a luck at the end of the curing waiting period, the re-spray panel has no new rock chip at all. I am currently in this situation but I see I have no choice lo.

BTW the bird brand paint is Glasurit LOL. yah that little bird but cost like aeroplane.

First time heard of the Oracle brand. Is it something available in Malaysia market? I see a lot of brand but mostly not available in Malaysia.

I am planning to do a whole hood and whole front bumper, because of concern that you mentioned, stain builds up at the boundary. So by doing whole panel I should eliminate or reduce this problem.
Nevertheless I wash my car on weekly basic.

Thanks for showing up a picture. Is this 3M Venture Shield, or Oracle, or something else?
The difference in transparency is a obvious, compare to the black BMW I saw in Bukit Jalil car exhibition last time (with 3M Venture Shield installed), I can't even tell there is a film until the staff told me to look at the corner.

Million thanks for all the blood left by you on your keyboard. Very generous person you are in sharing thought.
The photo that I posted is the film after a while, clarity will start to be blurred out. Whether its 3M or Oracle, the results will be the same, simply because its plastic. Thin plastic films will die first.

by the way, I would not recommend Opti-Coat 2.0 as it is totally a different product compared to Opti-Coat Pro. I have tested and double confirmed that after application of Opti-Coat 2.0 the colour tone will start to fade to a yellowish tone after a while which I dont think is a very good option. I used to provide service for applying Opti-Coat 2.0 but i stopped when i found out about this problem, fortunately I only sold to 1 gentleman which I after compensated with Opti-Coat Pro.

Oracle is like the 3M alternative, its a German brand. Its quite good actually as i have my foglights and headlights tinted with this film for almost 2 years and no degration at all.

Oh yea, another thing is that, repaints will just require a minimum of 2 weeks of curing as they mostly paint in a oven nowadays. So, 2 weeks is fine.. Thanks for the Brand name, because we here just call it the bird brand, my car had been fully repainted with this paint and clear too. results are marvelous but stone chip? still happening :sleep:

well, dont put it that way that Im generous...some people in this forum hates me, some bad mouth about me, but im guessing, just guessing its because i give out so much info that people use to suck on others. so im kindof the a**h*le here hahahaha:rofl:

btw... FUUUU u night cat 3.20am not sleeping.. ive got excuse, im working..
 

Izso

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Glasurit is overrated la. It's expensive because it's bloody hard to work with. It hardens fast so application must be done accurately and quickly. These days good DuPont clear coats and proper application can protect from chips and all too. VW, Audi and Volvo all use DuPont and I know one of the Glenmarie outlet supervisors - the fella will curse Glasurit and show you his beautifully painted Satria with DuPont clearcoat. Chip resistant and very shiny. Look at my cheapass paintjob and you'll see loads of chips everywhere. Damn thing doesn't even stand up to Plastidip and will haze up when the Plastidip is removed.

Lesson learnt is there is no cheap and cheerful.
 

fazidk

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Glasurit is overrated la. It's expensive because it's bloody hard to work with. It hardens fast so application must be done accurately and quickly. These days good DuPont clear coats and proper application can protect from chips and all too. VW, Audi and Volvo all use DuPont and I know one of the Glenmarie outlet supervisors - the fella will curse Glasurit and show you his beautifully painted Satria with DuPont clearcoat. Chip resistant and very shiny. Look at my cheapass paintjob and you'll see loads of chips everywhere. Damn thing doesn't even stand up to Plastidip and will haze up when the Plastidip is removed.

Lesson learnt is there is no cheap and cheerful.
Yes ur rite bro...but glasurit (overrated or x) it works to n extend...yes I admit it's a bitch to work wiz...hard s hell to polish...that's y I only use it when requested by customers..DuPont on d other hand is world renowned for its quality..like I mentioned every brand has its grade of lacquer n I'm sure ur painter fren used only d best grade for his ride:)...glasurit is expensive but then again a DuPont top grade lacquer wld cost more or less d same...

D trick is a I've learned throughout d yrs is application...do it rite n ur ride wil look fantastic...care is also important...but stay away from those house brands aka cheapo brands (unless ur selling off ur ride n let d next owner worry bout it OR ur on a budget)..they have their own version of HS lacquer but most (if x all but very close) x shine like a HS is suppose to...furthermore hse brand HS (which is suppose to be their top range costs more or less real branded MS lacquer)...
 
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scoutfai

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The photo that I posted is the film after a while, clarity will start to be blurred out. Whether its 3M or Oracle, the results will be the same, simply because its plastic. Thin plastic films will die first.....
Wow the difference in the paint tone differs a lot. The edge of the film makes the car looks weird. Sorry cannot accept this. I think it's a wiser choice to do whole panel instead of half panel to avoid seeing that obvious film boundary.

Surprise to know that Opti Coat 2.0 is that lousy. So far only hear good thing about it, maybe because those comments are from consumer level user, not professional detailer like you. But have you ever wonder it is because of the application phase that causes this yellowing? I was planning to do it on the wheel sometime in future by myself some more, as I have no way to buy Optimum Pro coating since I am not a professional detailer.

Talk about this Oracle, actually the name is Orafol is it? The product they created for car wrap is called Oraguard. I found this from internet, I believe is the brand you talking about:
Product details ORAGUARD 283 Stone Guard Film - Graphic Products
Can you tell me where you had your car installed the Orafol film? I am interest to visit the shop and ask them how much they quote for paint protection film installation.

Mention about you painted your car with Glasurit, did you go to the paint shop that uses exclusively Glasurit only or the shop usually use other brand of paint, only use Glasurit upon request by customer? If it was the later, is the paint shop technician use the same spray gun that he has been using to spray other brand paint to spray the Glasurit paint? They cant be so generous change a new spray gun whenever a customer requests for a brand that he never sprayed before in his shop, right?

I have been informed by many that 30 days of waiting period before waxing (or any kind of process) on newly spray paint is usually the minimum. Some 60 days, even 90 days. 2 weeks really sounds short to me. Is that what current paint technology has becomes?

The reason I am staying up late because I want to reply to you all la! LOL
I need to read carefully every word and digest what you guys mean. And then google a bit before asking, not the kind of person who don't do own homework first before asking.

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

Glasurit is overrated la. It's expensive .......
Will not disagree with you that Glasurit is overrated. This brand is like Apple, thing selling expensive, but quality is there. But it doesn't mean one cannot get equivalent or close to quality from other cheaper brand. So some goes to PPG. Du Pont I have no research into before, have very little knowledge about it and its line of product.

But as far as I survey, so far I only come across Glasurit produces a clear coat that is designed specifically for scratch resistant. Glasurit has HS clear coat too, so this scratch resistant clear coat is not the Glasurit way of calling HS grade clear coat, it is indeed a product designed for the purpose of what its name claims.
As for other brand, I know that most of them have HS grade clear coat. But the product was never designed to be scratch resistant priority at the very first place, though it has that capability as a result of its harder surface. Which brought out the reason I am more interest with Glasurit. If other brand also come out with their scratch resistant oriented product I also will be equally interested.
But of course I do not know how well scratch resistant it can be for the Glasurit scratch resistant clear coat. It could simply be a bold claim only by Glasurit.

So, you eventually re-spray your ride with Du Pont paint?
 

Izso

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I haven't resprayed it. I'm sick of sending my car to paintshops so gonna DIY it myself with Plastidip.

Also I don't disagree with Glasurit. But honestly speaking if you can afford a Glarusit protected coating, then you wouldn't be posting this thread up asking the question. Glasurit will easily set you back 4k to 6k only. I'd rather spend on a good DuPont clear coat and that 3M protector.
 

KrisMas

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Mind to share what other alternative film brand you had tried other than the 3M Venture Shield?

One was the Ora*something* (like you guys mentioned) and the other one I forgot the name already, cuz that was like quite a few years ago.

Since you are an user of both 3M Venture Shield and alternative film, can I ask:

1) What is your review on the effectiveness of 3M Venture Shield on your hood in term of rock chip protection? Same question goes to the alternative film on your bumper.

They all worked well for my case. I had quite a few stone chip marks on both the hood and bumper and very minimal damage to the paint beneath. Only a few went through and damaged the paint and, from the look of the dents they created, I'd say only a metal plate can stop those....hehehe....

2) You said you removed the 3M Venture Shield from your hood and the alternative film from your bumper. May I know why to remove them? and how many years since installation till removal? Is your car paint that time OEM paint since 1st day?

The film went on OEM paint. The 3M went on first together with the Ora*something* on the bumper. Around a little bit more than one year later I took off the film on the bumper and put on the 'forgot-the-brand' one. Then I took all of them off after another 8 ~ 10 months. The reason being, both had plenty stone chip marks and had became a little bit of an eye-sore, with the VS showing some irritating (to me) swirl marks. So, in general, the VS was on the hood for around 2 years...

3) So you mean during removal, 3M Venture Shield comes right off easily in one piece, where as the alternative film breaks up into smaller pieces and some pieces just will not removed out from the panel?

Yup, with some *comparatively* minor works in removing some of the remaining adhesive on the paint. But, to be fair, I do think (can't remember exactly) that the 'forgot-the-brand' one on the bumper is thinner...

4) In term of level of transparency, can you describe a little bit on the 3M Venture shield and alternative film from your personal feeling? Do they as clear as "invisible" or they are more toward opaque side? Which one more clear?

The VS, although not 100% clear, I would say you would really have to look hard for it to notice. The alternative one is not so bad either, but not as clear as the VS. Not as bad as the picture shown by s1tl but close enough. But mind you, the films went on a black paint, I would imagine on certain other colors the contrast *might* be more obvious. But one thing I'm certain, after removal, the alternatives were 'yellower' than the VS, even though the VS was on the paint longer.

5) So do you still use any film after your removal that time?

Nope. I've made up my mind if I were to put any film it has to be a VS or another of equivalent quality. And, for the time being, I went for preventive measures during driving until I can afford to get some more.


hrrrmm....just a suggestion, have you consider DIY-ing the VS? Far cheaper that way. I DIY mine and the cost of material was less than half of the quoted prices from a couple of installer that I asked (those days la).

---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

Oh...and another thing, if stone chips is really your primary concern, I suddenly remember something and might be another interesting thing to consider. The story goes like this:

It was one of the times when I went to Autodetailer for a visit and, lucky me, I had the opportunity of chatting with Darren. He showed me his car's front windscreen full of pits & chips, but the front hood and bumper wasn't as bad (he was known to hit the track with this car). So he told me the front portion of his car was painted with something that he described as 'bouncy' paint. It's not as stiff, hard and brittle like the DuPont High Solid or those hard clear, but something else that would absorb a little bit of the impact and 'bounce' the stone/sand/etc. instead of repelling them. I didn't do much research afterwards as he also did tell me that it's quite expensive and, at that time, only one place can do it (if I'm not mistaken it was House of Kolor). Don't know whether it's still available or even feasible in your case.....
 

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Any 'si fu" out there can gv any comment on how to Modi Hyundai Atoz?? I plan to change the exhaust pipe n extractor oso...but cant find any shop noe how to do this. (Im frm Melaka) Headache la~! N any1 noe any skirting for Atoz oso?? Thanks!
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