Project Z Week 23: Spare Z31 Chassis

[mizunori77]

like tom said, it is up the good samaritan to judge that if the car should belong to me .

the car is already registered under your name. it is yours. you should take ownership of the project, not ZTH.

this is what myself and other forum members are saying when we wrote "don't hide behind Tom/ZTH".

it is YOUR project.

although the project is slow, you have to be wary that i am not from kl. i could only ring up or sms people to hope that they will start doing their job. if they are slow, i cant push them, after all they are sponsors, i need to respect them and rather wanting them to throw my project off the street. please look at this perspective

once again, this is YOUR project because you suggested it from chassis to engine to what you want to do with the car.

take a step back and think why has it been slow? distance is only an excuse.

have you ever thought that your proposal was weak or too unclear that sponsors and donors are confused? forum members highlighted this many times but you went to hide behind "Tom say ok."

public donations were created because i told tom, that some forumers had suggested so. with that, i asked tom and he approved it. it is generally his website. it is wise that i do what i am allowed to do, within the limits set by him. if you think that is wrong, please address it to him. i only proceed to do it, because, ultimately, like it or not, it is his website and i agree the forum doesn't belong to me, but i appreciate you know that zth has been run on costs borne by tom to keep it running. so if anything, he has the say , even to pull the plug, hoep you will respect what he has to say. i never dragged him, merely asking permissions, he has the right to say no, but he has allowed me otherwise.

it is your project, STOP pushing it to others.

sponsors don't move, donations are slow = you blame others.

people question why you want public to invest more than 90% in your project = Tom say ok.

EVEN if Tom decides not to let you use ZTH as an avenue to solicit donations and look for sponsors, does the car belong to Tom?

it is YOUR project so please stop pushing every thing to others and take real ownership.

there are many ways to do a charity run. however, ultimately, if the car is not complete, nothing is concrete. only with that, we can move on to the next step, charity.

this is why pimpin asked if you had a plan.

if you can only give such vague answers, do you think potential sponsors and donors will have confidence in you?

if you are a sponsor and some guy comes to you with this project without proper RoI and unclear goals, will you invest?

calling and sms-ing sponsors every day or every hour means nothing if you have a crappy proposal.

you cant even convince forum members who had asked specific questions, do you think your sponsors will sponsor you based on your passion alone?

they are registered entities and companies and probably some of them have their accounts audited.

how are you helping them to justify sponsoring you in this project? like i mentioned before, you have no racing background and no street cred in rebuilding cars.

why should they sponsor you an RB26DETT when they can sponsor someone else with a better proposal or better motorsports background?

should people just quietly listen to you and throw money/parts at you just because you tumpang ZTH name? is this fair for ZTH? this is what we are saying.

if you still think that people are responding this way just for the sake of disagreeing, the posts would be much shorter and the thread would have been locked for excessive flaming.

yes, everyone has opinion, thats why countries exist, wars happen, no one can ever be satisfied. everyone has a say on how a country should be run. i dont want to rub u the wrong side, but i ask permission to do everything within my scope. thats how i should comply, being a paid personnel.

you don't have to detour to countries and wars and whatnot.

you are right that you had asked for Tom's permission to allow you to open threads and solicit for funds and parts.

however, it still doesn't mean that it is a ZTH project. it is very much, a private project.

take ownership, and show real transparency not only in the collections but on what is your project plan and why should people donate and sponsor.

passion doesn't pay salaries and neither does it guarantee RoI.

this is the reality that you have to face, no matter how convincing youtube videos can be.

 

[Veloc]

Wow... Just a few hours resulted in so many replies and infernos... I got the PM from Kevin too. But seriously there is no need for that. I didn't donate any money. I think that the one weak point in this project is the poor selection of the car. The repair of the chassis took too much time and money. And getting a spare chassis is like a duplicated, repeated use of money.

What's done is done. If the project is decided to go on, what is needed is suggestion of improvements. And mine is this:

1. Get some rotating parts.
2. It has to speed up. Is there a possibility that some of the cost of progress or purchase is borne by zth, and donors can then pay zth back?

Just a suggestion... Cheers...

 

[168henri]

Kev,

The first step you made was the biggest mistake. The car was horrible. You didn't even check whether it could start. Holes with rust where my fist can go in was visible to you, me and your brother. On the bonnet, on the trunk, on the roof plus many more. You didn't even look at the car thoroughly for say 3mins before going into the office? I was thinking who the hell buys something worth RM10k without even looking at the product from all angles and testing it out.

I told you not to go ahead. But you wanted to rush into the seller's office and hand him your RM10k without even bargaining....for me I would just leave or maybe offer RM2k for that junk.

But since you are more 'experience' than me plus a writer for ZTH, I couldn't say more as I'm just a regular guy.

If I'm in your position, I would put down my ego and just call this off and return the money and stuffs to the sponsors. Take the losses and learn from it.

Better still, complete the car using your own money and show everyone that you made it.

 

[khoyos]

So, to help Kevin Lee and the Z Project gain acceptance by the ZTH community, What shall Kevin Lee do next?:

let me give some technical advice on the transplant.

1) get the chassis sorted out. that is the most important part. the car itself.
2) purchase the engine + transmission. since kevin has chosen RB26 as his choice, perhaps invite some Malaysian Skyline Club (MSC) members during engine selection/purchasing. i think MSC can appoint an oversight committee to keep the engine build in check.
3) during conversion, i think the interior sponsor can come over to Edison's workshop to start working on the car. also other engine conversion-related sponsors (if any - such as suspension, braking, seats, etc etc). i'm available for any questions regarding engine conversion cos i've done it twice on my z31. 1st conversion running rb25det, 2nd conversion to 2jzgte.
4) let the car run stock for trial run for about 1 month.
5) supercar-killer upgrades after 1 month successful "commissioning" n ironing out small glitches (i'm sure there will be glitches as this is not a straightforward conversion)
6) give it another 1 month of "running in"
7) start attending ZTH events n start hunting for supercars...

there's some people here capable of handling the commercial aspects, such as the budgeting, looking for sponsors n managing the funds. since it is gonna be a ZTH project car, why not get the members involved? in the end the car might be kevin's to keep but wouldnt it be satisfying to be involved together in the completion of this project?

 

[Kevin Lee]

i approached tom, to ask, if we can do a project together, to showcase what is possible to do with a wreck. plus there must be a valid /legal owner to the car. hence i was nominated. we agreed to use the car to participate in the forthcoming timetoattack events.

however as time goes by, tom is caught up with with setting up with his own office. with that, tom told me i should handle the project alone! what can i do, if he leaves half way, so i soldiered on. i never put tom's name on it and i appreciate that he allows me to demonstrate what i can do.

i had a plan, i did get donations, mostly from product sponsors. getting cash sponsor is not easy. that's the trouble ive been going thru! i have more product sponsors that i havent listed down yet, because they haven't sent me the items to me or i haven't visited their shop to do a gratitude write up for their shop.

yes i am someone of no credibility. i know you do race professionally, but should someone of no credibility deprived of showing what you can do? we are all humans beings and should be given a fair chance if possible.

if i knew i would be branded as hanging on to the zth name, i wouldnt have started out the project at all. for what reason do i have to put up will all the unnecessary problems arising from people who will think im just hogging the zth name for my own personal gain. the reason is, ive disclosed the z31 project in public and it would be irresponsible to tom if i cancel the project. tom said, i would need to do public explanation as why to the project would be cancelled. thats why is soldiered on. do u think i really liked to get flaked by the public?

you will know the point how i started this all and thought i would receive full support. but unfortunately i was left to fend myself and still soldier on. this project was labelled as project z and zth provides as a media coverage partner to the project, as it does disburse funds to help out this project, so in everyway, zth has claims to this car in commercial speaking reasons. please understand this.

---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------

Kev,

The first step you made was the biggest mistake. The car was horrible. You didn't even check whether it could start. Holes with rust where my fist can go in was visible to you, me and your brother. On the bonnet, on the trunk, on the roof plus many more. You didn't even look at the car thoroughly for say 3mins before going into the office? I was thinking who the hell buys something worth RM10k without even looking at the product from all angles and testing it out.

I told you not to go ahead. But you wanted to rush into the seller's office and hand him your RM10k without even bargaining....for me I would just leave or maybe offer RM2k for that junk.

But since you are more 'experience' than me plus a writer for ZTH, I couldn't say more as I'm just a regular guy.

If I'm in your position, I would put down my ego and just call this off and return the money and stuffs to the sponsors. Take the losses and learn from it.

Better still, complete the car using your own money and show everyone that you made it.

read tom's explanation. judging from my honda experience, i actually applied the same theory to it. it was something i experienced in my honda, but unfortunately, there are more factors i did not consider on, so at various perspectives u are correct

the honda pulls at only 57hp, where as the nissan is expected to pull at above 300hp, the torque and power would have easily killed the chassis compared to the honda. that is one factor i forgot to look into.

its not about ego, its about continuation. and its not for the sponsors to look bad. thats why i am soldiering on with the spare chassis, but people take it wrong and judge me on my mistakes. yes i make mistakes and i learn, thats the only way to see it. thats why im continuing with option 2, henry. i cant disappoint the sponsors that has pour out sweat and blood stripping the car apart or sponsors that had anticipated great involvement in the car. thats why i had to continue, for the sake of continuity and the upholding of zerotohundred.com's rep, i have everyone to explain to

 

[168henri]

I wish you and ZTH success.

I'll just continue as a silent reader.

Signing off.

 

[Kevin Lee]

I wish you and ZTH success.

I'll just continue as a silent reader.

Signing off.

overall, i appreciate your honest opinion on this because its the most constructive criticism i have on this thread.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Kevin,

I thought I was done with this thread but it looks like I keep getting sucked back in. You already know what I think of your project and it seems quite a large number of senior members here share the same views as I do. Let me reiterate that I had initially agreed to sponsor an F-Con when you said this was a ZTH car built for fund raising. Clearly that is no longer the case so obviously I rescind my offer as its no longer for a cause I deem worthwhile.

With that in mind, can you please stop sending me PMs as I'm not interested in being even remotely associated with your project. Additionally, could you please stop badgering people for my phone number as I've no interest in talking to you. Whatever makes you think I'd sponsor an RB26DETT for your car? You seem to write decent articles yet reading isn't your strong point. Read my earlier posts - I said if this was a ZTH car (which it isn't) and was built to be a road legal fund raising tool (which it also isn't) then I'd have personally guaranteed you that engine. I think everyone here understands what I'm saying with you being the exception. I don't know if you're being dense to divert attention or if that is the best you can do as far as reading and comprehension are concerned.

So how about you just get on with this project of yours and forget about my earlier offer to donate the F-Con since it was an offer that resulted from misrepresentation on your part and the ever-changing scope of your project leaves me no choice but to disassociate myself from your project. Plus, after half a year you have shown next to no progress whatsoever nor have you even addressed any of my questions which I had kindly underlined in bold no less. But I guess the excuses for that is the fact that student life keeps you busy plus living in Kampar is making it hard to get things done and also that the written word leaves much room for misinterpretation.

Hope this settles the matter in a way that you are able to understand. If you have any problems, print out the entire thread and bring it to school. I'm sure one of your lecturers can help explain.

 

[s1tl]

Originally Posted by Kevin Lee
public donations were created because i told tom, that some forumers had suggested so. with that, i asked tom and he approved it. it is generally his website. it is wise that i do what i am allowed to do, within the limits set by him. if you think that is wrong, please address it to him. i only proceed to do it, because, ultimately, like it or not, it is his website and i agree the forum doesn't belong to me, but i appreciate you know that zth has been run on costs borne by tom to keep it running. so if anything, he has the say , even to pull the plug, hoep you will respect what he has to say. i never dragged him, merely asking permissions, he has the right to say no, but he has allowed me otherwise.
it is your project, STOP pushing it to others.

sponsors don't move, donations are slow = you blame others.

people question why you want public to invest more than 90% in your project = Tom say ok.

EVEN if Tom decides not to let you use ZTH as an avenue to solicit donations and look for sponsors, does the car belong to Tom?

it is YOUR project so please stop pushing every thing to others and take real ownership.

bro u r soright on this point I can't agree more. Coz when he called me he say becoz of blackhowling's post his donations stop coming in. I was like LOL that's the best excuse ever and pushing the problems to a person that just voice his dissatisfaction hahaha

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:42 AM ----------

i dont think u were involved in the decision making. it was henry btw. and i havent told u about my project before introducing you to henry, so you have your timelines messed up. steven can account to that.

oh yeah, easy to find him, look in my friends, bryan c autojunctions. its good that u can add him and be friends, so you can do detailing jobs too!

Sorry u dontnadd ppl just for business. I need friends too. I'm not like u stepping into ppl's business while ppl is discussing business u step in and shown ur name card its very funny ur perception of business marketing.

Even if I don't know ur timeline I rmb telling u about the 1985 2door e30 project I wanted to do and after much research i found out I needed to cough out cash amount of at least 100k and i told u 50k car with a rb26 just won't work. Tat money is not enough to reinforce the chasis to withstand that kind of power. Don't talk cock with me ask me google chasis reinforcement. U mock me like I'm some kind of retard on phone and on fb chat. I stfu does not mean I'm an idiot. Thanks for the total no respect to the only and youngest auto detailer in the industry and repeatedly trying to ask me to donate my service and elbow grease to detail ur Volvo and merc when u screw up ur driving and scratch it. U still dare say I'm ur friend by directly asking me "can u do it for free..?" when I ask u to write an article in return u took 3 months.

My opinion, ur attitude and character needs to be tuned before u can do any project. Even if u restore a proton saga u will fcuk up

 

[Izso]

Kevin : I contribute out of passion for cars not because I want money la (would be a nice bonus though). And I wouldn't think of starting a RX3 project, I have barely enough to support my current cars. Why do you think I'm so a big fan of DIY? Cost savings dude!

Anyway, I suggest to you now that you don't respond to anymore of these posts, digest them and take the feedback seriously. There are some good feedback here, focus on those and just get on with it. You can have your own opinion and others can have theirs even if they don't match. The only thing you can do now is take this feedback and try to implement what is suggested otherwise the Z project is doomed for failure if there is no support from the general public here.

You don't have to have Bryan or Pimpins support to complete the project but I'm sure these guys are only just the tip of the iceberg and there's bound to be others with similar questions, with only these folks being more vocal. I personally am neutral and intend to stay that way.

So the way I see it now is just accept the feedback, process what is logical and ignore what is not, then quickly get the gears going for this Z and see its completion asap! I'm sure you're more than capable, just that you probably need to arrange your schedule. I've no idea how you manage to study and maintain two restoration projects at the same time! Kudos to you bro!

 

[wsukun]

gosh s1tl..
its getting a little bit personal there..

 

[Kevin Lee]

bro u r soright on this point I can't agree more. Coz when he called me he say becoz of blackhowling's post his donations stop coming in. I was like LOL that's the best excuse ever and pushing the problems to a person that just voice his dissatisfaction hahaha

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:42 AM ----------



Sorry u dontnadd ppl just for business. I need friends too. I'm not like u stepping into ppl's business while ppl is discussing business u step in and shown ur name card its very funny ur perception of business marketing.

Even if I don't know ur timeline I rmb telling u about the 1985 2door e30 project I wanted to do and after much research i found out I needed to cough out cash amount of at least 100k and i told u 50k car with a rb26 just won't work. Tat money is not enough to reinforce the chasis to withstand that kind of power. Don't talk cock with me ask me google chasis reinforcement. U mock me like I'm some kind of retard on phone and on fb chat. I stfu does not mean I'm an idiot. Thanks for the total no respect to the only and youngest auto detailer in the industry and repeatedly trying to ask me to donate my service and elbow grease to detail ur Volvo and merc when u screw up ur driving and scratch it. U still dare say I'm ur friend by directly asking me "can u do it for free..?" when I ask u to write an article in return u took 3 months.

My opinion, ur attitude and character needs to be tuned before u can do any project. Even if u restore a proton saga u will fcuk up

yes im aware of the e30 u were trying to purchase

and yes, my guys at playhouse garage suggested chassis reinforcement for prices cheaper than the one you google. then again price is subjective remember

i never mock you, i was bringing up points on what i deem was right. i had the same chat with henry yesterday yet he listens to me patiently. if a friend were to listen properly, then everything can work out.

yeah u did detail my car, i told u , i didnt had clearance from tom about your articles and also i didnt know how to write. then i asked you to narrate some points, so i can add sentences to it. sorry i generally have no proper knowledge on detailing, hence i asked if you can little points to it, so i can expand. does that make sense now? i paid for the rest of the detailing, remember, either in forms of cash or beer. that you should remember. that detailing of the merc led to the introduction of henry and beer. i've never treated you like a sucker, but circumstances looked so. i hope that pretty much explains what happenned, so i appreciate that all the ill treatment goes out

im not blaming everyone for the lack of donations, but the project has been slowed down, because i had to ensure the balls being passed around. what can i do, if my guy who does the stripping slows down and has to focus on his business? it is his right, his sponsorship is a volunteer job.

then what if the other guy , wants me to sit down the next time i can drop by kl to discuss what i require in the metal restoration job. that is why it slowed down

then the next issue is, i have to come down to kl, to sit down with probable cash sponsors, only to decide if they were going ahead. right now. i can accomplish this every week end, thats why its span over 24 weeks now, which in essence, 4 weeks was unavailable, 20 weeks with part of them i actually went down to kl to discuss more

 

[mizunori77]

i approached tom, to ask, if we can do a project together, to showcase what is possible to do with a wreck. plus there must be a valid /legal owner to the car. hence i was nominated. we agreed to use the car to participate in the forthcoming timetoattack events.

so here you have confirmed that the car is actually a joint-project with ZTH while Tom's clarification quoted below has never mentioned anything about joint-ownership of the project.

once again, please stop pushing your responsibilities on to someone else.

So how does this relationship work?
1. Kevin Lee brings his Z project to the ZTH community.
2. ZTH allows Kevin Lee to publicize his Z Project as ZTH Contributor.
3. Kevin Lee contributes to ZTH through car and project article entries.
4. ZTH reimburses Kevin Lee with a small monthly salary for the effort.

I also gave Kevin Lee the green light to accept donations to further boost the project's health. All this in the name of love for building cars.

however as time goes by, tom is caught up with with setting up with his own office. with that, tom told me i should handle the project alone! what can i do, if he leaves half way, so i soldiered on. i never put tom's name on it and i appreciate that he allows me to demonstrate what i can do.

as ZTH is not a co-owner of the project, i fail to understand why tom is faulted for 'leaving the project halfway' that you have to "soldier on" alone.

dude, you initiated the project, take ownership and stop pushing it to others. this is why many forum members think you are full of crap.

i had a plan, i did get donations, mostly from product sponsors. getting cash sponsor is not easy. that's the trouble ive been going thru! i have more product sponsors that i havent listed down yet, because they haven't sent me the items to me or i haven't visited their shop to do a gratitude write up for their shop.

it is good that you have a plan but as you said, cash donations are difficult to secure.

have you refined your plans or come up with better quid-pro-qua for would be donors and sponsors so others have more confidence in you and the project rather than your current strategy of emphasizing on "Tom said OK"?

as what pimpin has said earlier, did you even bother to read our comments for the past 6 pages?

yes i am someone of no credibility. i know you do race professionally, but should someone of no credibility deprived of showing what you can do? we are all humans beings and should be given a fair chance if possible.

i am neither a pro driver nor an amateur competitor but i do know that in real life, no one will throw money or parts to a stranger so the other guy can "play car" unless there is a very good reason behind it.

i am not saying that newbies don't deserve a chance. i'm just saying that newbies should not hitch a free ride but pretend that he isn't.

if i knew i would be branded as hanging on to the zth name, i wouldnt have started out the project at all. for what reason do i have to put up will all the unnecessary problems arising from people who will think im just hogging the zth name for my own personal gain. the reason is, ive disclosed the z31 project in public and it would be irresponsible to tom if i cancel the project. tom said, i would need to do public explanation as why to the project would be cancelled. thats why is soldiered on. do u think i really liked to get flaked by the public?

if your version of "constructive criticism" is just for people to wish you good luck, then of course all the responses so far from pimpin, BH and other forum members will appear to be "negative" to you.

if you had an ounce of humility, at the very least, check and recheck your own motives and your project plan before "explaining" it to the public.

isn't this a better way for you to clarify everything instead of just dragging tom or zth into the picture relentlessly?

you are giving off the impression that you don't even have the confidence to share your project plans that you have to tumpang the green light given to fend of "negative comments".

do you think this action of yours inspire confidence in others?

you will know the point how i started this all and thought i would receive full support. but unfortunately i was left to fend myself and still soldier on. this project was labelled as project z and zth provides as a media coverage partner to the project, as it does disburse funds to help out this project, so in everyway, zth has claims to this car in commercial speaking reasons. please understand this.

media partners are just media partners, nothing more... just like sponsors will only be sponsors.

if the project owner (you) is not doing your best to manage the project, what makes you think that you can push the blame to others?

no one said that doing a car project will be easy but it is definitely worse if you won't even take responsibility or show accountability for your own actions... and this is why you "feel" you are being bombarded.

if you really want good support, show that you are sincere. stop pushing the buck.

this is my last post in this thread.

and to show you some little support, i wish you "good luck".

 

[Kevin Lee]

it was actually an fb chat discussion with tom on this issue, but nothing was on black and white, so i agree it cant count. i didnt cared if i had to start this project alone, because i was confident of finishing it. but i see ive been viewed negatively

well i did have plans, but the thing is, it involves sitting down and meeting up the sponsors. which i can allocate time at certain weekends and had to match up with the timing of the sponsor. i did try to get a certain sponsor out, but he was hospitalised in a certain tragedy and could only delay a meet 3 months later after super gt. unexpected things happen, whom am i to point fingers. i tried to look around for other too.

as for pimpin, i do read the comments, but it takes some time to keep up and reply each and every comment that has been put on, flooding the pages. i cant follow up with the post everytime sorry!

there are certain things in the car modification world to be privy. im sure u are aware that certain modifications will fire up the alarm bells. in essence, modifications to cars were never properly legal, thats why certain things cant be disclosed further to jeopardize the build, i hope that is understood. i rather ask everyone to come on for a cup of tea and listen to me on the table. this is the best way i can explain my direction, because anything i say on text, can be used against me in the project. im just saying this on the safe side

i'm not pushing blame to others, but it wouldnt be a cool thing if any of the cash sponsors saw this thread and they started to back up. most people wont know , if there was a shortage of funds, project stalls. i have to run around just to secure funds, it wasnt easy, but im pushing it. instead look at 24 weeks as 24 days. i could only do something on weekends.

so you know, i am a professional student. ive done my undergrad. so to clarify, im not really poor college student. its just i have no debts from real life, e.g. car loan, house loan, etc. the only commitment i have is to restore the honda s600 as a priority. the nissan works on cash i can garner on the mighty car mods - car donation idea.

 

[- D i a b l o -]

So Kevin..as you can see ah..quite alot of "unfaithfuls" out here and most are senior members of the club..myself included..been reading silently for too long.

When abang teach the adik how to do things then the adik still want to give reasons then not surprising the abang will rage lah.. so many forms of the concerns are being put across..we dont even have to list down what to do next..take the weekend off..sit down and read back what was written..and formulate a solution.