Project Z Week 23: Spare Z31 Chassis

[BLaCkHoWLiNG]

btw, stop pm-ing me either here or in facebook. We are transparent... just post here if u got any comments... thanks ya

 

[Kevin Lee]

it was this morning. i am doing that already now.

 

[- D i a b l o -]

Okay la yala side story all we get it sure got explaination. So now we can establish the fact that you are working for Zerotohundred and Tom hired you ma..okay so that means that this project is legally binded to ZTH. Its not about you la Kevin..its about the project.

Sure la not everyone get to know you real life..me included. Thats not a reason for you not to have plan this better. If you dont know how..you can ask all of us to give suggestions..formally pun boleh.. go yumcha and meet some of us la.. we got senior project managers..human resource directors..management guru all semua pun ada lurking .. got to ask la how to manage all this.

People say you spend money all is one thing..now you have to show them you didnt,want to play holier then thou pun takbley...you already hold people's money now kan? So listen to us and set things straight.

EVERYONE here has a story on how hard they work to do the things they want..we also not today only drive cars..most of the seniors here spent hundreds of thousands for their cars by themselves.It's imperative to them to know that where their hard earned money goes to..myself included. It doesnt mean we are prejudiced on you..you got to make us feel more involved.

Show the receipts and all that..tell everyone its legit and your projection is based on real-time pricing. If we want to be professional about it..then it has to start from you : )

 

[Kevin Lee]

yeah well, but u saw how i was being misunderstood that i am just sitting down there collecting money from everyone. u could have reported scam to tom and get me in trouble. simple as that

i did tell long ago where the money would go. thats why i said, i prefer people going thru the updates every 24 weeks to see what is missing. blackhowling, suggested a modded supra at 50k. realistically, we dont have cold hard cash of 50k to purchase that! everything goes thru a box and slowly planned to make this a reality. i could have bought any other car. i wanted to buy a c10 skyline sedan, however i believe ruining a complete classic would be a sin. that car has a g18 prince engine, that is stock. so i recommended that to someone who is passionate enough to do it.

after all, zth is all about modifications and stuffs. since the z31 was in shambles and never came with the original engine, i beleive it would be not a sin to hot rod it. i am all about originality and theme.

so far, there is no receipts in regard to the build. the only thing i can tell u is

car acquired for RM10,000 - paper receipt not scanned
towing costs : RM600 (receipt kept by edison of top secret)
rb20 repairs : RM300 (to determine fault) - receipt by edison
towing costs to playhouse for evaluation : RM100 - receipt on sms
purchase of spare chassis : RM4500 (RM500 from donation box, RM4000 loaned from relatives, receipt by sms)

purchased trim parts using own money : RM300

now are u happy with the disclosures? i could put that every week on my write ups

so far i still havent broken the bank and has not exceeded rm50,000. thats why i rather prefer u start reading from week 1 to week 24, rather than hearing from non credible source who has no head and tails of what is going on

 

[- D i a b l o -]

yeah well, but u saw how i was being misunderstood that i am just sitting down there collecting money from everyone. u could have reported scam to tom and get me in trouble. simple as that

i did tell long ago where the money would go. thats why i said, i prefer people going thru the updates every 24 weeks to see what is missing. blackhowling, suggested a modded supra at 50k. realistically, we dont have cold hard cash of 50k to purchase that! everything goes thru a box and slowly planned to make this a reality. i could have bought any other car. i wanted to buy a c10 skyline sedan, however i believe ruining a complete classic would be a sin. that car has a g18 prince engine, that is stock. so i recommended that to someone who is passionate enough to do it.

after all, zth is all about modifications and stuffs. since the z31 was in shambles and never came with the original engine, i beleive it would be not a sin to hot rod it. i am all about originality and theme.

so far, there is no receipts in regard to the build. the only thing i can tell u is

car acquired for RM10,000 - paper receipt not scanned
towing costs : RM600 (receipt kept by edison of top secret)
rb20 repairs : RM300 (to determine fault) - receipt by edison
towing costs to playhouse for evaluation : RM100 - receipt on sms
purchase of spare chassis : RM4500 (RM500 from donation box, RM4000 loaned from relatives, receipt by sms)

purchased trim parts using own money : RM300

now are u happy with the disclosures? i could put that every week on my write ups

so far i still havent broken the bank and has not exceeded rm50,000. thats why i rather prefer u start reading from week 1 to week 24, rather than hearing from non credible source who has no head and tails of what is going on

Kevin..i read your thread from head to tail from the start up until now . I am telling you directly this is what I feel about this. Im not basing all of this on prejudice and thinking you are scamming us but you have to start READING AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT I JUST WROTE EARLIER LEHHH

I also can write i bought my girlfriend for rm10000..cant be scanned shes a human..but i bought her for that price. Have faith ma i where got lie.. You get the picture?

We have to periodicaly list the documents or at least get Tom to tell us that this is officially supported by ZTH.

Secondly ah..I am always under the impression that you are doing this public project based on your own likings.Look at how you chose the car..If I was you I'd bring in some members of the forums of different expertise to evaluate the car and post the findings before agreeing to purchase it. That way I dont have to say aiyah..so much rust..so much shit underneath. Whats done is done lah..we learn from mistakes right? You could at least discuss thoroughly what steps need to be taken into consideration.. not tell us okay we're gonna do this this..then ask our money for it.

You wanted to buy C10 skyline but you believe complete classic is a sin..mehhh I dont want to know what you want..Its a public project bro..always remember that its our project..all of us ZTHrians

 

[Blood Red]

i know people from the skyline community is viewing me very negatively, because i seem to be getting all the financial benefits from the build, but what they dont go thru, is the pain of getting dissapointments all the time. one ring call, and my heart sinks, they tell me this problem and that problem. what can i do? i just push thru. people here being happy keyboard warriors only think im doing the same, i only wish they could see in life how i had to wade thru all of this.

Kevin, as the unofficial self-elected ex-Ketua Darjah of the unofficial Skyline Club, I unofficially take offense at your official statement above.

Please do not generalize.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Mantan Ketua Darjah Tidak Rasmi Kelab Garis Langit Malaysia

 

[Kevin Lee]

yeah, but u must understand. 10k is an amount understood from the beginning. hence it should be left out from the donation box as it has been partially paid up, based on my working term with tom. the 10k will not involve any members of the party, in a donation. theres no donation in it. pretty clear. as for the towing costs and rb20, i have absorbed the costs myself. i didnt asked anyone for them in the first place if u followed up closely.

when did i started to ask donations? it was when i decided that we needed an engine, then we started the 2.8k donation box. then later on, with the problems found in the condition of the car. we had to splurge out a surprise amount of 4.5k to speed things up. i was hessitating at first to start the box, but some forumers suggested it. i asked tom and tom approved. then i created a paypal account which both of us can access. i record down every donation money on the thermometer and the transaction slip every week in post, is that not good enough? even if the money can't be get from the donation box, at least i am straightforward honest to my corporate sponsors. remember, the money can come from many avenue and it will be how i will disclose it.

i have discussed with tom. tom did ask if the z31 was a good car to go along with. i wiki'ed a lot and there are a lot of posts suggesting so. one of the cars u can read is little k's rb26dett powered z31. another credible source i referred to is khoyo's own 2jz powered z31. if these two sources arent good enough, then i believe i might have made the wrong choice. if this was a public project, asking what I WILL BUY for the public, now thats different, but considering its my own start up money, i believe the choices rests in me.

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------

Kevin, as the unofficial self-elected ex-Ketua Darjah of the unofficial Skyline Club, I unofficially take offense at your official statement above.

Please do not generalize.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Mantan Ketua Darjah Tidak Rasmi Kelab Garis Langit Malaysia

sorry for that, what i meant to say is, certain people. not all, sorry!

 

[gobiz2]

Kevin, my humble opinions again.

No need to write so long.
No need to harp on what is spent, as it is still YOUR car.

Just provide proper and legal documents as to:
1. How the donations will be used
2. How donors and sponsors can use/access the car.

It's just to reassure them and forumers here that you won't:
1. Quit the project (making the donations and sponsorships in vain).
2. Abscond with the car if you manage to complete it.

Thus, if you do one of the above, donors/sponsors will be able to seek legal redress.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

For all those who maintain that Kevin's personal life should remain private, I couldn't agree with you more. However, Kevin obviously does not think so. For the past few hours I've been inundated with messages both via SMS and on FB from friends who were contacted by Kevin wanting to get my number.

Why does he want to speak to me privately? I do not know. All I asked was very simple and I'll list it down again:

1) Initially Kevin said the car was to be used for fund raising activities to which I was enthusiastic and agreed to donate a spare HKS F-Con which I'm not using. At this point in time, if you read the earlier threads note how it seems as though this was a car owned by ZTH and Kevin was sort of the appointed guy to spearhead the project. Even to this day, he keeps using "we" as though there is more than one person who has a stake in the car.

2) Fast forward a few weeks later and suddenly the goal has changed to proving that a performance car or something can be built for under RM50k. I believe there was even an implied target top speed and a lot of the posts had a Wangan theme to it. What happened to the fund raising, displaying the car all over the country?

3) Now the goal seems to be racing the car in some classic car championship which I admit I don't know much about. Nevertheless, I fail to see the link between any form of competitive racing AND fundraising.

That is the main issue I believe Kevin has yet to clarify. Why the changes in the scope of the project? If someone had donated RM50 in the second week thinking it was going towards a car built to raise funds for charity is it fair to him that the goal is to now race the car? Shouldn't that money be returned?

The reason why I mentioned the European trip was to question Kevin's dedication to the project. Given the fact that he has managed to squeeze in a long holiday which I'm sure wasn't cheap, why only RM300 attributed to you so far based on what you have posted in your graph? As you said, if one were to follow you 24/7 then the dedication you have towards this project would be obvious but if this was truly your goal then it should be reflected in the contributions. If indeed you had contributed more than the RM300 you listed, why not list it all down properly? That's what full disclosure is all about isn't it.

You solicited donations from people under various pretences and not a single receipt of any kind has been posted here on ZTH.

Are you able to disprove the above statement? Until you do, I believe I'm not the only one who would continue to question this project of yours. Which brings me to my final points:

1) It looks to me like what you're now trying to do is swap chassis between the two Z31s. I have to ask on behalf of everyone - is this legal or not?

2) What happens if the end result of your project fails to pass an inspection? Is everyone reimbursed? What is your contingency plan? Since you've submitted numerous proposals, surely this was something you had anticipated?

Lastly, I couldn't help but notice that someone implied that the Skyline community was 'jealous of the financial benefits' that Kevin has somehow received from the project. Let me be clear in saying that this isn't the case. It's not the amount of money that matters but firstly, how you went about soliciting it and secondly how you've failed to provide full disclosure on all things related to the project.

If this project was truly a project owned by ZTH and is used for fund raising as originally implied, I would have gotten the Skyline community to buy that RB26DETT for you. If that car becomes the property of ZTH and you have guaranteed in writing the completion of the car in a road legal form I will personally guarantee you that RB26DETT engine you have been posting week after week.

BTW, if you really wanted to raise money don't set a minimum donation of RM50. People will give what they want to give. If someone can spare RM10 or RM20 then take it.

 

[Kevin Lee]

gobiz2

if that is the way to go, i will proceed doing that for assurance. i think it was discussed long ago how the money would be spent. each thermometer suggests how the money will be spent and what reasons

i believe its better to ask tom to give out an official statement. ive ONLY have an email from him saying i am allowed to use zth as platform to ask for sponsorship. thats it. tom could have given me 10k from the beginning and asked me to build this car. but no. my form of security to him is, a bank loan with alliance bank of 11k, 10k for car purchases, 1k for the rest of the acquire and fixing costs. with that i am commited to the bank for 2 years. should i am dismissed from my job early. i will have to deal with the losses in acquiring a junk car. i put my good faith trust on tom. thats how it is. so far only 5/24 months has been repaid.

the car will be in possession for 2 years. nothing will change. even my contract with sponsors will be a minimum 2 years to display, when our contract starts. the only thing i could say is, i could sell of the car and restart another project, if that HAS to happen, but i dont foresee seeing it

you can quote my words to put urself on self assurance. as i am a employee and not an employer to the company, i cannot put out legally binding documetns.

i have every right to the car. if it completed, i will drive the car around as a how scooby doo would have their mystery machine. a way to actually show the car around to the public. but my promises is that it will be unsold for a minimum of two years. even so, you have to acknowledge the hard work that goes thru in negotiating all the sponsorship. that's how i see it.

you can quote my quote, and can be seconded by another person quoting my text. this is to be fair and just. i will post on zth future updates, that both of u will be able to testify against me if stuff goes wrong. my full name and bank account is listed on top, so feel free to bring legal issues to me.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

i believe its better to ask tom to give out an official statement. ive ONLY have an email from him saying i am allowed to use zth as platform to ask for sponsorship. thats it. tom could have given me 10k from the beginning and asked me to build this car. but no. my form of security to him is, a bank loan with alliance bank of 11k, 10k for car purchases, 1k for the rest of the acquire and fixing costs. with that i am commited to the bank for 2 years. should i am dismissed from my job early. i will have to deal with the losses in acquiring a junk car. i put my good faith trust on tom. thats how it is. so far only 5/24 months has been repaid.

Can you please explain this in more detail? From what I understand, you asked if you could use this forum to ask for donations prior to buying the car? Or did the idea of asking for donations come from forumers later on? Which is it?

How is your bank loan any security to Tom (sorry for dragging Tom into this)? Are you saying you are a salaried employee for ZTH and you took out a loan under your name and the instalments are paid out of the salary that Tom pays you?

 

[gobiz2]

gobiz2

if that is the way to go, i will proceed doing that for assurance. i think it was discussed long ago how the money would be spent. each thermometer suggests how the money will be spent and what reasons

i believe its better to ask tom to give out an official statement. ive ONLY have an email from him saying i am allowed to use zth as platform to ask for sponsorship. thats it. tom could have given me 10k from the beginning and asked me to build this car. but no. my form of security to him is, a bank loan with alliance bank of 11k, 10k for car purchases, 1k for the rest of the acquire and fixing costs. with that i am commited to the bank for 2 years. should i am dismissed from my job early. i will have to deal with the losses in acquiring a junk car. i put my good faith trust on tom. thats how it is. so far only 5/24 months has been repaid.

the car will be in possession for 2 years. nothing will change. even my contract with sponsors will be a minimum 2 years to display, when our contract starts. the only thing i could say is, i could sell of the car and restart another project, if that HAS to happen, but i dont foresee seeing it

you can quote my words to put urself on self assurance. as i am a employee and not an employer to the company, i cannot put out legally binding documetns.

i have every right to the car. if it completed, i will drive the car around as a how scooby doo would have their mystery machine. a way to actually show the car around to the public. but my promises is that it will be unsold for a minimum of two years. even so, you have to acknowledge the hard work that goes thru in negotiating all the sponsorship. that's how i see it.

you can quote my quote, and can be seconded by another person quoting my text. this is to be fair and just. i will post on zth future updates, that both of u will be able to testify against me if stuff goes wrong. my full name and bank account is listed on top, so feel free to bring legal issues to me.

Now that's a step in the right direction.

Once you sign a contract, and say you break it eg. if you sell the car for some reason, your sponsors can sue you.

Also once you prepare a proper proposal, if for some reason your donors do not find that you have kept to your word to complete the project and allow them access, they can sue you.

Also any individual can provide legally binding documents. Otherwise no one will be able to buy property, secure study or business loans etc.

 

[Kevin Lee]

Can you please explain this in more detail? From what I understand, you asked if you could use this forum to ask for donations prior to buying the car? Or did the idea of asking for donations come from forumers later on? Which is it?

How is your bank loan any security to Tom (sorry for dragging Tom into this)? Are you saying you are a salaried employee for ZTH and you took out a loan under your name and the instalments are paid out of the salary that Tom pays you?

Hi PIMPIN

Thing is, when I started the project with Tom, he was less busy. I suggested we needed an all rounded FR car, that could perhaps participate in major motorsports events.

Coming from my enthusiasm, I spotted this car on Mudah, a Z31. This car seems to be fairly rare. I have googled around and realised on one article, that Z31 was a nice pocket rocket.

About Z31Parts.com

Why the Z31? Why this car?

While often entirely overlooked by auto enthusiasts, many people don't see that the Z31 platform has great potential. Sadly, unlike other cars, there is severely under-developed aftermarket support. My experience is that most "car" people don't even know what a Z31 300ZX is, and many who do just see it as a slow and boring (read: stereotypical) 80's car. Oddly enough, these are usually the same people whom have never even driven a Z31 300ZX, let alone owned or modified one. "Once you get inside a Z, a Z will get inside of you" is an old Nissan slogan that really rings true with these cars. The platform blends a very well-balanced chassis (50/50 weight distribution for most models, and fully independent suspension) with a smooth, responsive and overly stout powertrain. With many other areas that can be vastly improved upon, they offer a very good platform for building a budget street rocket or race car. Unfortunately, very few aftermarket companies have embraced the Z31 300ZX to help shed it from its highly ill-deserved "red-headed-stepchild" persona...

So I approached Tom with a proposal, that I wanted to bring in a car project to educate the mass about the oldschool movement in Malaysia. Originally I wanted a Nissan Skyline C10 sedan, but as I said, I didn't wanted to mess with the heritage. So I decided on a coupe that looks good in my eyes. Tom has allowed me to ask around for sponsors before I started the project and reascertain by email thats what I can do.

I've written an email highlighting what we should do, the direction of the project and what aims we were to get. My initial budget was much lower, however, it spiralled up when there was so many hidden costs.

Yes I took a loan from Alliance bank, totalling RM11,000 for the project, so far the car has been repaid 5/24 periods. So I hope you have mercy on me. Whatever I contribute to Zerotohundred goes back to the car. Which is why you could safely understand, why should I have the full control of the car.

I appreciate if you would talk to me on the phone, because, it can be very lengthy to talk it all up. I've known v-spec for years now and he could account for my character. if anything u think u might be misunderstood, i believe u can ask him about me.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

when did i started to ask donations? it was when i decided that we needed an engine, then we started the 2.8k donation box. then later on, with the problems found in the condition of the car. we had to splurge out a surprise amount of 4.5k to speed things up. i was hessitating at first to start the box, but some forumers suggested it. i asked tom and tom approved. then i created a paypal account which both of us can access. i record down every donation money on the thermometer and the transaction slip every week in post, is that not good enough? even if the money can't be get from the donation box, at least i am straightforward honest to my corporate sponsors. remember, the money can come from many avenue and it will be how i will disclose it.

So I approached Tom with a proposal, that I wanted to bring in a car project to educate the mass about the oldschool movement in Malaysia. Originally I wanted a Nissan Skyline C10 sedan, but as I said, I didn't wanted to mess with the heritage. So I decided on a coupe that looks good in my eyes. Tom has allowed me to ask around for sponsors before I started the project and reascertain by email thats what I can do.

It's not your character I'm worried about rather the way you went about this whole project. And what of the above? Plus, are you educating us or fund raising for ZTH? And the timeline as to when you decided to solicit donations?

 

[Izso]

Ok, I believe I have a better understanding of the folks here. Please do correct me if I err.

Instead of discussing what ifs and what nots, let me try to summarize what needs to be done by Kevin based on th feedback from the folks here and at the same time clarify what it is Kevin is trying to share.

Kevin needs to be openly transparent with the costing and the sponsorship & donation money. Post up costs, monies spent and what needs to happen after this as and when the project progresses.

Kevin started this member donation based on feedback from members, got approval from Tom to proceed with this and donors transferred to his account and he posted up who contributed what.

As for the ownership of the project, the car is officially owned under Kevin personally because he paid for the car in the first place. Whether the car should belong to ZTH or not, Tom will need to clarify his stand, so instead of having a tit for tat with everyone, let's just wait for Tom to publically clarify what is his stand on the matter. Kevin has already highlighted this issue to Tom and right now we're all just waiting for him to step in to clarify.

What Kevin does during his free time (although his Euro trip was poorly timed, it still is his right to go for a personal trip as when he wants since it is his own money) and what the Skyline club thinks of anyone is not related to this. Personal opinions and items should not be brought in the conversation otherwise this will be an attack on the person. Let's just attack the issue at hand which is the Z31 project.

Lastly I don't like the way this conversation has gone. Kevin had a good idea but poorly executed the idea. Instead of hammering him left right and center, why not just guide him in the right direction without the negativity? Since this is obviously is a public project that involves folks from ZTH, if ZTH wants documentation and public sharing of information, then lets just focus on that. If legality is an issue, then focus on that too. If contracts are required, then lets get this written down and clarified. Please dont throw in mud-slinging here.

Kevin, you've spent a small hefty sum on the project, since the folks are recommending the project be a ZTH project, can you talk to Tom about being reimbursed for your expenses and transfer ownership of the car to him. Regardless of the fact he has 3 cars, one more can be assigned to the company which I believe he has setup since Joeker mentioned "menara ZTH".

I recently attended a course that highlighted the following :

A conversation consists of 7% words, 38% body language and 55% tonality. Since forums are 100% words, the chances of the conversation being misunderstood is very high. Let's just keep that in perspective when replying.