How to improve braking performance part #2

Izso

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Unfortunately for me, I somehow corrupted some of my photos and need to retake the brake bleeding process so that'll be done in part #3 of the 'how to improve braking performance' series.

But for now I'd like to discuss this particular modification that I had done - Steel Braided Hoses.

The original OEM brake hose is made of a special rubber compound that's able to withstand the 1000psi (probably less, but giving the benefit of doubt) of pressure transferred to the calipers from the brake pump/servo to pump the brake oil to your calipers to make them stop your car. It's probably one of the toughest things in your car since it has to withstand temperature changes, weather changes, dirt, dust, water, high pressure and still be flexible enough to allow some movement since your front tyres turn left and right.

Most original brake hoses will outlast the lifespan of the car! But with every other type of rubber product, it will eventually dry up and harden and/or lose its rigidity. The explaination of steel braided hose retailers is that stock hoses tend to expand causing some pressure loss at the caliper, resulting in a spongy feel on the brake pedal. A steel braided hose doesn't expand and therefore ensures constant pressure to the caliper.

I did some research on this claim and came across this particular test done by autospeed.com. Interestingly they concluded that only 2.4% of gain was observed comparing an old brake hose vs a steel braided hose.

Now, 2.4% didn't seem like much but I've been living with slushy brakes on my Myvi for a long time and I've done a lot of experiments (I even have a prototype brake stopper) to find ways to improve my brakes. So I took a chance and gave Drexchan from EA Autoworks a call, ordered one set of "Improve" brand steel braided hoses and made an appointment to have them installed. I know there are other brands out there but since I've known Drex forever, I thought I'd ride on his services and pick his brain on everything related to the product he was selling.




"Each hose is made from teflon and braided for extra strength"

What caught my attention is the quality of the finishing. It was cut to the exact length of the standard hose, fitted in snugly and curved nicely without any nicks or strains to the hose. I liked how the ends were terminated and covered with some sort of yellow plastic / rubbery cover.

So far so good.




"No expansion means more pedal feel"

I've been looking for that!

"I know. That's why I asked you to install this"

Each fitting is curved the same way the original hose is curved and everything is tightened back. The reason why I didn't do this as a DIY is because I don't have the open ended hexagonal tool that Drex used. Didn't think it'd be a wise investment since I'll never use the tool again as these hoses are supposed to outlast the car if properly maintained.

Maintenance? Brake hoses? Since when?

Apparently dirt can sometimes get caught between the braiding and get lodged there. If unlucky, it might damage the inner hose and cause a leak. But having said that, I've done my Googling and wasn't able to find any cases of this nature. Issues happen with steel braided hoses only if not properly installed. So always seek professional help when doing something as important as your brake lines!

How do we maintain the hoses? Just give it a cleaning whenever you wash your car and try to keep the wheel well mud / dirt free (minimally free anyway).

"Ok.. go test your car."

I usually ignore the immediate impression whenever something new is installed because of possible placebos and I generally need to readapt to the car anyway. So first pass around the "test track" was ignored. After a quick white coffee break, I went for a 2nd run. Brake pedal firm! Nice. The amount of effort needed to stop the car was lessoned. Double nice. No more sponginess! Triple nice.

Although real world tests by autospeed.com showed only a 2.4% increase in performance, that 3% in my world was exactly what I was looking for.

A week later and the pedal pressure was still consistent. Very nice.


Time spent interrogating a friend on something you want done : One day
Effort spent doing research on a product : 2 weeks
Finding out 'buttfeel' works better than a 2.4% real life test : Priceless!

To be continued.. part #3 of how to improve braking performance - Brake bleeding and brake pad running in.


Side note : this particular install was done by khguan of EA Autoworks, not Drex. My other car was done by Drex.
 

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radhie

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hey iszo,just wanna ask u..ur myvi fitted with ABS?
i've problem with my myvi,comes with ABS..bad experience with the braking system,during the emergency brake,i softly pressed the paddle until the ABS works,i didnt slammed on the brake paddle or sudden braking..i slowly pull my leg off on the brake paddle,but when i tried to brake,there's no feel at all on the paddle,i have to pressed it until i can feel the floor,i've to pump it over and over again,then only i can feel the pressure on the paddle..is there something wrong with the pump?ABS sensor?
 

eohl79

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Hi Iszo, did you try bleeding/replacing the brake fluid first before installing the steel brake hose? Evaluating before and after steel hose was installed could justify the 2.4% gain. Maybe there was prior air in your brake system hence the sponginess.

Another thing, do you think installing steel brake hose has it benefits work as it could work as a heat sink? I was thinking along the line that the steel should dissipate heat better than regular rubber. Therefore works better under hard braking, higher temperature.
 

TitanRev

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My sister has a MyVi and I help her to bleed the brakes before. Even after bleeding 3 times. It's still the same....I think it's a inherented problems on MyVis...perhaps?
 

arturo

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TR...maybe master cylinder failing? or the booster pump leaking?

Izso...this is not a simple DIY woooo...i sure pulled out half my hair halfway thru fixing back everything...
 

SE86

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TR i got solution for u...myvi brakes u bleed how many times also same wan..i also try before..
 

eohl79

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Come to think of it, MyVi rubber brake hose line is long. That must be why it feels spongy. Makes perfect sense to upgrade to steel hose.
 

Izso

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hey iszo,just wanna ask u..ur myvi fitted with ABS?
i've problem with my myvi,comes with ABS..bad experience with the braking system,during the emergency brake,i softly pressed the paddle until the ABS works,i didnt slammed on the brake paddle or sudden braking..i slowly pull my leg off on the brake paddle,but when i tried to brake,there's no feel at all on the paddle,i have to pressed it until i can feel the floor,i've to pump it over and over again,then only i can feel the pressure on the paddle..is there something wrong with the pump?ABS sensor?
If the ABS is activating even when softly pressed, either the ABS is damaged or your rotor is warped. It sounds like the other dude who asked exactly the same question. Probably your master pump o-ring needs fixing. Also check your brake oil levels, is it low all the time? Maybe you sprung a leak. Too many possibilities. Need to check one by one.


Hi Iszo, did you try bleeding/replacing the brake fluid first before installing the steel brake hose? Evaluating before and after steel hose was installed could justify the 2.4% gain. Maybe there was prior air in your brake system hence the sponginess.

Another thing, do you think installing steel brake hose has it benefits work as it could work as a heat sink? I was thinking along the line that the steel should dissipate heat better than regular rubber. Therefore works better under hard braking, higher temperature.
Yes I did do a bleed and flush before this. My part #1 was about a week or two before changing to braided hoses and I did do the bleed but the sponginess never really went away. I partially blame the brake pads, the other thing I blame is the firewall.

I don't think it acts as a heatsink considering the inner tube is teflon. That's a pretty good insulator of heat imho.


My sister has a MyVi and I help her to bleed the brakes before. Even after bleeding 3 times. It's still the same....I think it's a inherented problems on MyVis...perhaps?
Nah. The problem actually is the firewall, it's too damn thin. After a while it flexes together with the servo. My fix for that was a brake servo stopper and it did work to strengthen the feel of the pedal. But due to tooling costs, I didn't think it was cost effective to mass produce it and sell it. Otherwise it really did do wonders for the braking feel (my prototype was great!)

TR...maybe master cylinder failing? or the booster pump leaking?

Izso...this is not a simple DIY woooo...i sure pulled out half my hair halfway thru fixing back everything...
I never said it was a DIY! LOL.. I did say you need that special tool to do this!
 

safwan79

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Is it happen when you depress brake pedal then slightly release pedal and depress again? If yes it may be it due to brake master cylinder pump seal worn out, then you need to replace the repair kit. Another possibility is somewhere got leakage, pls check your brake master resevoir follow by ABC ECU(Behind the battery) then the all four wheel brake cylinder. If it is not happen too frequent, may be you need to do ABS bleeding(You may do it at any Perodua Service Centre which equiped with Diagnose Machine - DS-II). Hope it may help you.
 

TitanRev

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DOT5 not suitable for us for have use glycol based fluids because it can't mix with the other DOTs must fill up in a totally dry system. I read the description that DOT5 are not for all can use it and some calipers will leak. During my last brake upgrade I wanted to get DOT5 but after reading some info on the net and on the description on the can. I went back using DOT4...I wanted to use DOT 5 because it don't have the problem of soaking up moisture over time like the other DOTs But I wonder why DOT5.1 is glycol based instead of Silicone since DOT5 is silicone..
 
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Izso

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DOT5 not suitable for us for have use glycol based fluids because it can't mix with the other DOTs must fill up in a totally dry system. I read the description that DOT5 are not for all can use it and some calipers will leak. During my last brake upgrade I wanted to get DOT5 but after reading some info on the net and on the description on the can. I went back using DOT4...I wanted to use DOT 5 because it don't have the problem of soaking up moisture over time like the other DOTs But I wonder why DOT5.1 is glycol based instead of Silicone since DOT5 is silicone..
I don't know the whole story behind DOT5, but I do know DOT5.1 is backward compatible with 4 and 3. So if you're using DOT3/4 then swapping over to 5.1 will not be a problem. I'm currently using DOT5.1 on all my cars. Myvi using the Bosch 5.1 (yellow) and my other car Ferodo 5.1 (red). Damn irritating cuz I keep forgetting and keep mixing the two and end up get orange. LOL
 

D7zul

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i always use the brake fluids recommended by manufacturer :biggrin:

p/s : Izso.. nice avatar :tongue:
 

Izso

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i always use the brake fluids recommended by manufacturer :biggrin:

p/s : Izso.. nice avatar :tongue:
It's a good representation of how I've been feeling since I've run out of simple DIYs to do. Restless!

Part #3 hopefully coming up soon. Won't be in this weekend so hopefully I can get it done today.