The ins and outs of chassis strengthening

Veloc

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
May 19, 2010
3,234
991
1,713
Sabah
I think there are ups and downs...

For those foam stuff... I haven't try these, but personally I think these are rubbish. Sound insulation, heat insulation, chassis strengthening all in one. Too gimicky. I mean come to think of it, it might do a little bit of all that is mentioned, but never good at it. Because it tries to do all. Don't tell me the strengthening will be good than steel/aluminium bars. And don't tell em the sound insulation will be better than a full, multi layer sound deadening mats.

For the bars, I believe these are good but depends on what the driver wants. I've tried one on my wira last time. Just a front and back strut bar. Surely the handling is nice. Cornering is crisp. But going over a bump, because the bar links the 2 strut tower together, the car loose some independence in suspension causing more jarring movement.

I also got testimonies when a person using strut bars, got into and accident. Because it ties two sides together, the other side is also slightly dented from the impact.

So, really depends on what the driver wants... But for foam, o0o.
 

alpina

Active Member
Senior Member
Apr 7, 2010
32
15
1,508
Kuala Lumpur
Car designers spent a lot of time to develop their car bodies in the event of a crash, many cars are designed with a crumple zones and chassis strengthening may interfere with it.
You may possibly end up with some of your strengthening bars injuring or killing you in an accident. A roll cage on the other hand is designed to strengthen the safety cell in your car in the event of an accident.
 

Newt

Junior Member
Senior Member
Nov 3, 2008
19
4
1,503
Hi, can't help but notice this thread :-)

I'm a noob, so my opinion is mostly rubbish i suppose... but this is me just talking from experience...

I drive a very old car (well, my brother's car actually :-p) an RX-7 FC3s, dating from 1987 (yes, it's ancient X-p)... at first, being a noob and all, i never really took notice in body flexing and chassis rigidity and stuff, but then, after taking the car to several consecutive open track days at Sepang, all the high G corners really undermined the chassis rigidity...

The chassis started to twist and turn up to the point where even i would notice it :-p the downside of it all is that it disconnects me from the feel of the suspension, how good are the tires holding the road, how much load is the suspension being subjected etc... So naturally the car became far more unpredictable on the limit...

It became far more obvious on downhill touge runs where car stability and weight control is of priority.. it became so bad, that even my friend's Neo could leave me in the dust on a downhill run :-p

That was when we decided that we needed to re-strengthen our chassis... note the word re-strengthen :-p because i do believe that stock performance car chassis are superb, but overtime, they tend to lose their rigidity and initial stiffness...

So at first we pluck in a full bolt-on roll cage :-p and the feel of the car became SUPERB!! It was many folds better than before... i became connected again to the suspensions and the tires.. the car became so manageable, that i eventually overcooked a corner and crash it X-p well, that may not be a good thing, but the fact of the matter was that by strengthening the chassis, i felt the difference, so much so that it gave me SO much confidence, that i felt i could get the car out of any sort of mess i.e. catch any slides through the turns.. unfortunately i failed to take into consideration the speed and inertia of it all X-p

Anyways, after that, our goal was to seek the ultimate in chassis strengthening... :-p since we're stripping down the car, we had it spot welded, anti-rust treated, and all the rust patched up... Then we strapped on a rear strut tower for good measure :-p

The chassis felt great, the car finally reacting to the suspension as it should be... it became more predictable, more manageable on the limit... then we had a power bump, a bigger turbo, wastegate etc etc etc, we came to speeds that are even twisting our bucket seat... >.< that was when we felt that there is not enough rigidity at the rear as we felt the rear twisting in the corners... not that it was as bad as previously, but i'd still prefer more rigidity...

So currently we're now considering the foam option :-p once we've done that up, i'll tell you guys how it feels ^^

My conclusion, it all depends on what you want to achieve actually... stock chassis are great as it is, but after many decades, and many abuse, the chassis will start to soften up and become undermined... that is when i believe chassis strengthening truly comes into the picture (that is if you're not using it for track / drift specific purposes :-P)

Just another side note, as for mass produced car, the chassis are as soft as candy, so strengthening it up really is a plus... my friend's neo handles like a go-kart when he completely strengthens his chassis via strut bars etc...

That's just my 2 cent worth of quite a rubbish opinion from a noob :-p how far it is from the truth, i have no idea... X-p that is my truth anyway...
 

DarkChild

1,000 RPM
Senior Member
Nov 16, 2003
1,429
674
5,213
Kuala Lumpur
Let me stir the hornets nest a little... :biggrin:

by Dino Dalle Carbonare



Ok this will probably have most of you guys scratching your heads, but yes that's a GT-R driving out of the Spoon Sport's Type-One workshop in Tokyo. It's actually my R34, and the reason I brought it over to Ichishima-san was to have it fitted with something that has intrigued me ever since I heard about it a little over a year ago, the Rigid Collar. The constant pursuit of perfection is something every enthusiasts tries to achieve with his prized possession, and when it comes to my car I'm extremely picky with what I fit it with. I think Ichishima is exactly the same, that's why Spoon Sports has made such a name for itself and when he came up with the Rigid Collar he knew it would benefit pretty much every single car out there, therefore decided not to limit himself on providing it only for the Honda community.



And that is indeed a very good move, as these little aluminum 2-piece collars have been attracting all sorts of cars to the Type-One workshop as the application list continues to grow. "Sometimes we get up to 12 cars in one day," as Yamada-san, the person in charge of fitting the collars to the Skyline, tells me. "We get anything from Porsches and BMWs to Subarus and Toyotas." And it seems everyone is so happy with the result, which makes me even more excited about getting these things onto my car. The concept is very simple, basically the Rigid Collars act as guides for the bolts that hold the chassis and subframes together, so that there is perfect alignment between the two holes the bolts are passed through. These holes, to ease assembly, are usually much larger than they should be, which over time allows the subframes to misalign throwing the car's geometry out the window. But enough with the theory part, let's take a look at how they are fitted, pictures will tell the story far better than words can.



So first thing was to place the GT-R on the lift, remove the wheels and lift it up.



The R34 is fitted from factory with a front diffuser, which helps generate front downforce and smooth airflow over the front portion of the car. It looks cool and very racecar-like but it requires to be removed pretty much every time you need to do anything on the car, which is why I have gown to hate this damn part! On top of this it's actually made pretty badly and a few unavoidable scrapes here and there (check out the opening picture to see what I mean!) it will eventually split open along the seam where it has been fused or glued together. I'm currently on my third one, and they aren't cheap!! But enough moaning.



So with the diffuser off, Yamada-san and the Type-One mechanics got to work in undoing the four big bolts that hold the front subframe to the chassis.



Removing the diffuser revealed a greasy mess around the passenger side drive shaft caused by pretty large split in the rubber CV boot. This is currently getting fixed up over at Pentroof.



As all four bolts were loosened up...



...it was time to hold the subframe in place with an hydraulic transmission lift...



...before the bolts began to be loosened further.



This picture perfectly shows the problem the Rigid Collars address. You can see how the subframe has moved around and the bolt is far from centered, not to mention the offset bolt marks left on the subframe.



This is what the rigid collars look like. They can be very different in appearance depending on application or whether they are made for the front or rear subframe.



These are the ones that were to be used on the front. As you can see they are cut down the center and can be split by hand. This is so they can be fitted without removing the subframes from the car, making the fitting procedure far simpler and quicker.



A little copper grease is placed on each half of the collars...



...before they are carefully placed on each side of the exposed threads.



And there you go, all four halves in position on one side of the subframe.



Using the hydraulic gearbox lift the subframe is carefully lifted up into place while checking the collars snap into place.



There you go, perfect alignment obtained. Next step is to fit the bolts back on, tighten them and torque them to factory settings. The washer part of the collar will squash and deform to form a perfect, even and flat seal between the surfaces of the chassis and subframe. If you watch this video you can see this further explained by a few diagrams and animations.



With the front done it was over to the rear, and like the front the rear undercover had to be removed to expose the rear subframe.



Again first step is loosening the bolts...



...which, after 12 years, were pretty tight!



With rubber bushings being used on the rear mounts of the rear subframe the Rigid Collars required are slightly different...



...one regular thin one on the upper part to seal and align the top cup to the chassis...



...and a second bigger one underneath.



The Rigid Collar in place around one of the front rear subframe mounting points.



With the collars in place, all bolts torque checked and front and rear undercovers back on it was time to fit wheels.



I had them rotated to keep front and rear wear as equal as possible. Those Bridgestone RE-11s do wear down quite quickly!



One of the mechanics took the car out for a quick drive to check everything was ok...



...and found the steering needed to be re-centered now that the subframe was aligned properly with the chassis. Even driving the car around you can instantly feel an improvement in the car's dynamics. The first manhole cover I went over I instantly noticed the suspension felt far more compliant when dealing with bumps and steering feel definitely improved off center, where it had always felt a little vague. On the limit is where the changes can really be felt, with the alignment now perfectly squared up, the car feels far more precise and planted through corners while direction changes are more progressive when tire grip eventually begins to let go.



As soon as my car was done this Mazda Axela MPS was lifted up ready to be fitted with the Rigid Collars. Feeling the car come alive and more communicative is extremely rewarding and I am very happy I decided to go for this upgrade. Now the question is, what's next because as we all know this tuning bug never really ends does it!!



Rigid Collar

Spoon Sports



-Dino Dalle Carbonare
SOURCE - SPEEDHUNTERS.COM
 
Last edited:

V-Spec

Senior Member
Senior Member
Nov 28, 2003
1,861
170
5,163
Leo, when you fitting those rigid collars? Hehehe

The price of those little bolts/washers are amazingly high!
 

[PIMPIN]

2,000 RPM
Senior Member
Thread starter
May 21, 2004
2,138
648
3,213
Leo, when you fitting those rigid collars? Hehehe

The price of those little bolts/washers are amazingly high!
Yeah, he even had to defend the costs of installing them initially on GTROC forums. I guess it must really make a difference though. Definitely not high on my list of priorities though. :burnout:
 

Dr.D

500 RPM
Senior Member
Aug 28, 2005
522
55
1,528
Petaling Jaya
well, its not how rigids ur chassis, its where the rigid parts of the chassis.. theres always a need of chssis flex to a certain amount , too rigid will strain the suspension and cause geometry of the suspension to move to much. thus loosing traction and control. need to study the simulation of certain chassis design on the CAD and improvise where to strengthen ..

keta pasar needs to send chickss.. i mean chicken to mamak goh tong to be marinated for tandoori.. so need spot welding
 

LittleWhiteWagon

1,500 RPM
Senior Member
Oct 12, 2009
1,656
187
1,663
P.J
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-MY</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> While strengthening seems to be the ultimate goal, the materials used and the construction also need to be considered. For example, a solid steel front strut bar may be the most rigid; it does not crumple when sh1t happens. If the car is hit on one side, the force is transferred to the other, which will result in a deformed chassis. That may cause more harm than good. Some might scoff at aluminium constructed strut bars, but a well designed (i.e. tubular design) is rigid enough at the same time will crumple at the hinges when the car is hit. I disagree to those who said solid steel is the holy grail of chassis strengthening. Not to mention it is heavy too.. Put whatever bars available for your car and you’ll end up adding another 10-20kg.:rofl: After all, you get what you pay for.


Chassis foaming? I have heard nothing but praises with the result, but it is not something that I would do. If it is so good why don’t manufacturers pre-fill the chassis with it? Cost? The foams aren’t that expensive.
Dude manufacturers do, RX8 subframe, most peugeots, hell even the old pulsar GTI-R was foamed from the factory.

My wagon has been foamed, best mod besides coilovers. The weaker the chassis the better the results with foam.

It also made the car slightly quieter, my parents noticed it before I did ahaha :biggrin:

---------- Post added at 02:34 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:23 AM ----------

I think there are ups and downs...

For those foam stuff... I haven't try these, but personally I think these are rubbish. Sound insulation, heat insulation, chassis strengthening all in one. Too gimicky. I mean come to think of it, it might do a little bit of all that is mentioned, but never good at it. Because it tries to do all. Don't tell me the strengthening will be good than steel/aluminium bars. And don't tell em the sound insulation will be better than a full, multi layer sound deadening mats.

For the bars, I believe these are good but depends on what the driver wants. I've tried one on my wira last time. Just a front and back strut bar. Surely the handling is nice. Cornering is crisp. But going over a bump, because the bar links the 2 strut tower together, the car loose some independence in suspension causing more jarring movement.

I also got testimonies when a person using strut bars, got into and accident. Because it ties two sides together, the other side is also slightly dented from the impact.

So, really depends on what the driver wants... But for foam, o0o.

Haha you're really talking like as if you know what it is huh?

The foam expands and becomes rigid, its like cement filling up a pipe in the middle. Explain to me how does something solid that fills up an empty area not work? :stupid:

Personally I think its more overall complete than bars, since i've DONE IT I can actually comment, unlike you who just oOo stuff that you've never tried.

Dont lah be narrow minded :biggrin: . Go learn science on how the foam expands, turns into a different substance once its fully cured then you can oOo on it.

It quietens the car not as much as sound deadening duh, but it helps muffle resonance from empty parts of the chassis. Sound cant get through a solid area as easy as an empty area. HOWEVER profoam, I wonder whether that works. I personally am using autofoam + a UR strut bar so I can comment on that only ATM.

Next up would be custom rigid collars :proud: . I'd like to see whether its possible to replicate them here in Msia.

---------- Post added at 02:41 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:34 AM ----------

[PIMPIN];1063639312 said:
I was thinking if we could keep the discussion centred on cars used primarily on the road where comfort is still a factor. But if there are those who do drive spot welded Skylines and/or ones equipped with rollcages then by all means, your input is invaluable.

In addition, I was hoping to introduce the subject of reinforced bars such as the ones made by everyone from Do-Luck to Ultra Racing. These are the types of strengthing I would consider. However, given the fact that Do-Luck tells you what the bar is made of and you can tell where the mounting points are, couldn't Ultra Racing replicate the exact same thing? Logically it should work the same.

Aside from Ultra Racing, who are the local alternatives?

Thanks in advance!
C-tech, they use aluminium instead of steel. What do you mean Do-Luck can tell you where the mounting points are? Ultra Racing already mentioned they use powdercoated steel for their bars actually.

---------- Post added at 03:01 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:41 AM ----------

Okay since everyone is sharing i'd like to share on FOAMING.

In a nutshell from what I know, the foam isnt like, whipped cream soft flismy foam, they only call it foam BECAUSE when its applied it oozes out, like foam hence the name. It's actually a 2 part liquid, when combined it cures at a very fast rate, expands then become really really hard.

I cant prove it to you here on a forum where we all just type, whoever wants living proof of how it works should visit me sometime and have a ride hahaha, either that or go see KLAuto's boss who is the official dealer for autofoam here in KL. He has a 500ml coke bottle filled with that stuff and it can take my weight. Im 76kg just FYI. However it can absorb energy when pressed, kinda like a really really hard sponge. But when used in bulk its very very strong and can retain a lot of energy within.

The idea behind it is very simple, a monocoque chassis has chassis rails throughout the car and they're all hollow. None of them have water/drain channels, or wiring, so basically its just empty places where noise can echo and where metal can fatigue. On older cars like mine the A pillar houses the antenna wire and I forgot about that when I foamed my wagon. The old antenna on the A pillar broke off, but the wiring is stuck in there forever because of the foam. Anyway back to rigidity!

Its even worse on cars like mine, cause I drive a WAGON with the hatch the size of midvalley. Everybody knows, bigger area with a hole = more flexing. To make matters 'better' my wagon has been hit in the rear by a jeep cherokee with a bloody bullbar, so that makes it even weaker. It wasnt a small accident either, think long blind corner + heavy downpour + speeding jeep + no abs. The accident was offset to the left of my trunk and the impact was so hard, I ended up slamming into the car infront of me as well. So after repairing the car I found out about autofoam. Ended up going all the way to KL to get the chassis foamed hoping to stiffen the car up with this 'magic foam which is gimmicky'.

Autofoam has 2 foams. A purple one, and a yellowish one. No this isnt art class, the purple foam is EXTREMLY solid. From what was said by KLAuto's boss, the purple one is really meant for stiffening, so it was only used on small portions of the chassis where its needed the most, the yellow one was injected everywhere else, A-D pillar, front to rear chassis rails and side to side.

Mmm after letting it cure it actually makes the car feel more solid, rather than stiff. Because its not like metal bars that tie down a certain area, it just fills out empty areas making that feel less hollow. I'd say the car feels more SOLID and less flimsy front to back, side to side.

Lastly the foam is fireproof, waterproof, and extremely light. He poured petrol into the 500ml bottle I mentioned earlier, lit it on fire and it just extinguished. Plus its fills out EVERYTHING in the bottle, theres literally nowhere for the liquid petrol to go but just at the top. It was kinda weird smelling burning plastic... but thats not the point.

The only downside to this i'd say is that if you're a hardcore racer, go get a rollcage first. This works VERY well on cars like mine (accident damaged, weak hatchbacks). If you have a 2011 GTR and put foam and say you cant feel the difference dont blame me, I doubt my car has the structual rigidity of even a satria neo now heh.

The strutbrace works well too, my wagon has no power steering. The steering feedback feels slightly better and it self-centers easier.

Thanks for your time, I hope that what i've said helps give a clearer view of how foaming is compared to the more normal chassis stiffening procedures. Its been 3 years now since the wagon has been hit, and 2 years since i've foamed it. I have 100% no regrets getting it foamed and if I have enough money, i'd foam every old car I ever get.

However im still skeptical on newer cars, i'd like to hear if any forumer has done it on a more modern/sportier car? Maybe a GTR or Evo :hmmmm: Anyways bottom line that stuff works for me. I'll be constantly popping up here and there to defend it ahaha :biggrin:
 
Last edited:

[PIMPIN]

2,000 RPM
Senior Member
Thread starter
May 21, 2004
2,138
648
3,213
[PIMPIN];1063639312 said:
In addition, I was hoping to introduce the subject of reinforced bars such as the ones made by everyone from Do-Luck to Ultra Racing. These are the types of strengthing I would consider. However, given the fact that Do-Luck tells you what the bar is made of and you can tell where the mounting points are, couldn't Ultra Racing replicate the exact same thing? Logically it should work the same.

Aside from Ultra Racing, who are the local alternatives?

Thanks in advance!
C-tech, they use aluminium instead of steel. What do you mean Do-Luck can tell you where the mounting points are? Ultra Racing already mentioned they use powdercoated steel for their bars actually.
I don't know what you are talking about dude. Having read and re-read that paragraph you wrote, every single sentence has nothing to do with the one before it.
 

^pomen_GTR^

7,000 RPM
Senior Member
May 13, 2010
7,509
1,690
1,713
The Mines
well if not mistaken jun got their own foam product...


as well as HKS did on their gtr32 if not mistaken..


plus if u watch turbo channel 734 astro back then where got Ultimate tuner battle with XS engineering did put foam inside their gtr32 battle car....


p/s:if we watch youtube in american touge 3, where that gtr dare to challenge the original japan mines gtr34 flied all the way to us....(but ended up that gtr32 block cracked and that battle didn't happen)


after all..i'd say for street car...foam job was absalutely a better option compared to bolt-on cage since there was risk of JPJ/traffic police arrest on your car.... :adore:
 

cosmicgate

Known Member
Senior Member
Oct 14, 2005
315
35
1,528
My car is a road warrior, and a taboo to the tracks. It has about 600 ponies only when on a straight clear road. I'm also old and cold blooded, boosting in the corner is forbidden above all. Some people call me uncle for driving like one

Do I need chasis straightening?
 

Tan Kin Sung

From Facebook
Oct 26, 2010
24
0
501
www.facebook.com
It actually depends on how much power you have and weather your car can take it or not. Few example like an Evo and a normal lancer body rigity is totally two different thing. Even the Nismo Z tune GTR-34 they reinforce the wheel panel near the strut mounting with carbon fiber to make the car more solid. Some like the famous CTR have more spot welding on the car for stiffness. It more of a rocket science of giving the car the right balance of rigity and power. Too stiff no Hp makes you feel like your engine can't keep up with the chassis. Too much power chassic not stiff you feel like you are driving a out of control rocket. So my point is a car is a very complex tool. Car balance is very very important. As what Tsuchiya always say balance. For me I porsonally like my car to be stiff like the CTR. First week driving a stiff car make me feel like vomitting in the middle of the highway but after a while other cars handle like s**t and a stiff car handle like a dream.
 

owtaman

Known Member
Senior Member
Oct 9, 2008
107
4
1,518
I have experienced Autofoam in my previous car a 1995 Perdana(Manual) couple years ago, I will try to leave some points here to share.

0. I remember the Autofoam package I installed was a STD package which does not fill up the entire chassis but injected into the hollow area under the two side steps and the boot area, I cannot remember if the foam was also injected in the horizontal chassis under the passengers though. But for sure not inside the A pillar(might cause rust due to collecting of rain water because this section could block the drain channel), Not injected inside B nor C pillar also.

One thing to note is the mixture, the KL Auto's boss explained to me that the 'bubbles' size can give different effect to the stiffness, smaller bubble(high density) will make the chassis very stiff thus more suitable for racing/track use, where bigger bubble(lower density) is more suitable for street use. He also said that the correct mixture is very important and he has improved his formula through years of experience to cater for appropriate purpose/needs.

1. I have the opportunity to confirm the Autofoam effect because my friend owns a Perdana v6 which has the same chassis. He actually bought the car a few months later after I borrowed my Autofoam filled Perdana to him. But No he did not install Autofoam in his Perdana even until now, as he did not want to get this level of stiffness, but nevertheless he appreciated the stability he experienced in my car and he confirmed that there is a notable difference in terms of handling if compare with his Perdana v6. The difference can be felt even on NKVE highway which you don’t really steer that much, especially on long high speed curve, I believe this is due to the reduction of flex in the area between the front wheels and the rear wheels, which reduce the 'bounces' flex at the chassis and let the suspension do its job better.

2. One thing to note is that it seems the chassis would get stiffer as time passed by(or is it because I was getting older ?), I was using hydraulic shocks with 17 inch rim wearing Japan tires at the start and it was like perfectly tuned, later I switched to Gas shocks with Korean Kumho tires and I started to complaint about the stiffness, in the end I remove the 17 inch rims and go back to 16 inch for better damping on bad condition road(with the Gas shocks). I can't give anything conclusive here but at least I can suggest to avoid Gas shocks if you plan to stiffen up your chassis via foam for street use.

3. On the sound proofing, yes it makes a difference(less resonance) but later on you will hear something else, because when some noises are blocked, you will hear other new noises, such as the wind noise at high speed which before this was hide under the engine/exhaust noise.

4. When you slam the doors(as most of us like to do when testing new cars at show room), you will feel the solidness as though you are closing the door of an European car.


So now, should I do it on my ECR33 ? This car should have a more stiffer chassis among R32 to R34 but its more than 15 years old now.. would it be fatigue now and time for some 'reinforcement' ?

Some reviews found via Google.
Autoworld Blog
Car Preventive Maintenance: After 15 Days of Autofoam
Autofoam Review
 
Last edited:

Veloc

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
May 19, 2010
3,234
991
1,713
Sabah
Haha you're really talking like as if you know what it is huh?

The foam expands and becomes rigid, its like cement filling up a pipe in the middle. Explain to me how does something solid that fills up an empty area not work? :stupid:

Personally I think its more overall complete than bars, since i've DONE IT I can actually comment, unlike you who just oOo stuff that you've never tried.

Dont lah be narrow minded :biggrin: . Go learn science on how the foam expands, turns into a different substance once its fully cured then you can oOo on it.

It quietens the car not as much as sound deadening duh, but it helps muffle resonance from empty parts of the chassis. Sound cant get through a solid area as easy as an empty area. HOWEVER profoam, I wonder whether that works. I personally am using autofoam + a UR strut bar so I can comment on that only ATM.
:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

Why do you get so worked up over what I've said? Please respect people's opinion. It's a forum and everyone got the rights to share. I even remembered when in one post, you stated that turbo = stupid power. Chose the right words please. You seriously got an attitude problem How old are you?
Let me address all your accusations one by one...

Haha you're really talking like as if you know what it is huh?... Personally I think its more overall complete than bars, since i've DONE IT I can actually comment, unlike you who just oOo stuff that you've never tried.
Well my friend, if you read properly, what I said was "For those foam stuff... I haven't try these, but personally I think...". Well, Did I admit that I haven't try it? Did I say that I'm sure it's rubbish? Do you notice the word "think" and "haven't try". In english, think refers to an opinion/thought. If I have tried it, I would use the phrase "from my experience" instead. And I was honest to admit that I didn't try it, didn't i?

The foam expands and becomes rigid, its like cement filling up a pipe in the middle. Explain to me how does something solid that fills up an empty area not work? :stupid:
Friend, I know how it fills up a space and cures there. It's even in their website. But the thing is, even if it cures, it is "porous". Not solid. There's a big difference between porous and solid. If you chassis is made of porous metal, you'll die. If your car sofa is made of solid stuff, you butt will crack.

Dont lah be narrow minded :biggrin: . Go learn science on how the foam expands, turns into a different substance once its fully cured then you can oOo on it.
Bro, I am a scientist and I work for the Royal Society as well as the local university in my place. Please google it if you want to know more about royal society. But still, I might not be that clever. But even so, don't call me narrow minded la... Scientist also learning new stuff everyday...

HOWEVER profoam, I wonder whether that works. I personally am using autofoam + a UR strut bar so I can comment on that only ATM.
As I said before, his is a forum. Every can share freely whether it is an "opinion", "experience" or "lies". Early in my post, I already stated that the foam thing is merely my "opinion", not experience.

So why you need to say "I personally am using autofoam + a UR strut bar so I can comment on that only ATM."

zzz...

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Adeh...
 

Random Post Every 5 Minutes

Hai...anyone out there been using sunroof from Caroz...(the one advert in Extreme Kar mag)??
Just want to find out how much is the price and is it reliable?
How bout the installation? good or not?it hav manual version and auto....so anyone using it....need to hear it...Thanx... :)
Ask a question, start a discussion or post something for sale!
Post thread

Online now

Enjoying Zerotohundred?

Log-in for an ad-less experience