CPS (Cam Profile Switching) vs VVTI vs DVVT

[tigger5251]

We all should know what is Proton, shouldnt expect much from it.....

 

[GSR06]

Firstly, VTEC uses high revolution and short ratio gearbox to compensate the peak torque at 5000-600rpm, and VTEC revs untill 9000rpm

And for this Range Rover engine, its a V8 ! Do you know how much torque a V8 generates?

Both these different agendas has their own conpensation to counter back the VIM technology drawbacks, which were well matched and designed by their RND team...

But CPS, consumers are the RnD white mouse......hehe

VTEC is more for performance whereas our own CPS is more for driving pleasure...so far, not much issue on CPS engine...maybe because of low torque and low power....

 

[estear]

I may be wrong, but I imagine it's the cam profile & phasing (= valve overlap) that affect engine characteristics? That's why there are many such technologies to optimize engine performance such as CPS, MiVEC, VTEC/i-VTEC, VVT/VVT-i/DVVT, Vanos, etc.

 

[Erik Yong]

Hi,
Yes, I have tried the top speed. Cps needs a very long empty road. VVti , no peoblem!
The manual version is better in terms of response and feul consumption. Yes, I have driven one too. I think the poor response from the cps stems from the basic campro engine itself. I remember first trying the neo auto when it first came out and was terribly dissapointed with the dud engine. I thought the handbrake was on! The sales person told me to step on it! By adding the Cps, it has helped.. otherwise I would not have bought the car. Just don't expect anything from it and enjoy the handling to a certain degree.

Regards,

Erik

 

[GSR06]

Hi,
Yes, I have tried the top speed. Cps needs a very long empty road. VVti , no peoblem!
The manual version is better in terms of response and feul consumption. Yes, I have driven one too. I think the poor response from the cps stems from the basic campro engine itself. I remember first trying the neo auto when it first came out and was terribly dissapointed with the dud engine. I thought the handbrake was on! The sales person told me to step on it! By adding the Cps, it has helped.. otherwise I would not have bought the car. Just don't expect anything from it and enjoy the handling to a certain degree.

Regards,

Erik

Hehe, you are right...when you try to build up the momentum and suddenly there is one car in front of you and you have to brake, guess what, you have to build up the momentum again...this really sucks man. Anyway, this is the reality but this problem could be overcome with a B.O.T. or with Quadcam or etc..

---------- Post added at 07:56 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:49 AM ----------

I may be wrong, but I imagine it's the cam profile & phasing (= valve overlap) that affect engine characteristics? That's why there are many such technologies to optimize engine performance such as CPS, MiVEC, VTEC/i-VTEC, VVT/VVT-i/DVVT, Vanos, etc.

Maybe, it could be compensated by changing the ECU, adjustable CAM pulley, exhaust system, BOT, etc. Perhaps a boxer or rotary engine for performance enhancement purpose. Comparing original setup, CPS is still far far behind la....

 

[aalto]

Some on paper comparisons,

Manufacturer claim -

1. Neo CPS - 125hp , 150Nm (DOHC CPS)

2. Civic SIR (EG6) - 170hp, 152Nm (DOHC VTEC)

3. Civic Vti (EG4) - 130hp, 138Nm (single cam VTEC)

Based on paultan dynotest there is a loss of 12% for hp & 14% for torque (Nm)
So the figures are :

1. Neo CPS - 110hp , 129Nm

2. Civic SIR (EG6) - 149.6hp, 134.1Nm (B16A DOHC VTEC)

3. Civic Vti (EG4) - 114hp, 118Nm (D15B SOHC VTEC)


So in comparison we can see that the torque difference between a B16a & CPS is not that great around 5-6 Nm difference, but hp of the CPS falls way short of the B16A & even less than the D15B.

In theory, From these figures I would say in a 3 way drag from a standstill, the CPS can start as equals to the B16A to around 4500rpm but the CPS will fall back at high RPM's & the D15B will eventually catch up to the CPS due to the higher powerband of the D15B. (assuming same weight & gear ratio)

IMO, the CPS has potential, but in stock form its hp rating isn't that impressive as its even lower than a SOHC VTEC engine. The torque might be on par to the B16A but thats bcoz their both 1.6 L, but the D15B is a 1.5L engine. A normal 1.6 DOHC engine could get the figures of the CPS engine (lets say a 4G92)

With the use of valve timing mechanism the horsepower rating of the CPS should be around the 140-150hp area to really show off its technology...mind u the comparisons are to a 16 year old Civic!.....

Maybe it was too costly for proton to achieve reliability with the CPS to achieve higher horsepower ratings....so its really up to the tuners to R&D the CPS so it can be a real contender to VTEC (a least for B16a, its still a long2 journey to K20a territory)

Just some points to ponder

 

[boyzone]

Some on paper comparisons,

Manufacturer claim -

1. Neo CPS - 125hp , 150Nm (DOHC CPS)

2. Civic SIR (EG6) - 170hp, 152Nm (DOHC VTEC)

3. Civic Vti (EG4) - 130hp, 138Nm (single cam VTEC)

Based on paultan dynotest there is a loss of 12% for hp & 14% for torque (Nm)
So the figures are :

1. Neo CPS - 110hp , 129Nm

2. Civic SIR (EG6) - 149.6hp, 134.1Nm (B16A DOHC VTEC)

3. Civic Vti (EG4) - 114hp, 118Nm (D15B SOHC VTEC)


So in comparison we can see that the torque difference between a B16a & CPS is not that great around 5-6 Nm difference, but hp of the CPS falls way short of the B16A & even less than the D15B.

In theory, From these figures I would say in a 3 way drag from a standstill, the CPS can start as equals to the B16A to around 4500rpm but the CPS will fall back at high RPM's & the D15B will eventually catch up to the CPS due to the higher powerband of the D15B.

IMO, the CPS has potential, but in stock form its hp rating isn't that impressive as its even lower than a SOHC VTEC engine. The torque might be on par to the B16A but thats bcoz their both 1.6 L & but the D15B is a 1.5L engine. A normal 1.6 DOHC engine could get the figures of the CPS engine (lets say a 4G92)

With the use of valve timing mechanism the horsepower rating of the CPS should be around the 140-150hp area to really show off its technology...mind u the comparisons are to a 16 year old Civic!.....

Maybe it was too costly for proton to achieve reliability with the CPS to achieve higher horsepower ratings....so its really up to the tuners to R&D the CPS so it can be a real contender to VTEC (a least for B16a, its still a long2 journey to K20a territory)

Just some points to ponder

Since 90 s engine performance is so good ( even though better than today ), why they stop
to production? Again, this is related with Euro4 emission control.
Btw, engine output just a refference, u still need to go with power to weight ratio,
and gear ratio set up.
By putting in the CPS engine into Satria 1.3 chasis, u will see the different.
Lotus Elise, just loaded with normal 1.8 DOHC engine, with 140hp. But, capable to clock in 5sec in zero to hundred.

 

[estear]

Some on paper comparisons,

Manufacturer claim -

1. Neo CPS - 125hp , 150Nm (DOHC CPS)

2. Civic SIR (EG6) - 170hp, 152Nm (DOHC VTEC)

3. Civic Vti (EG4) - 130hp, 138Nm (single cam VTEC)

Based on paultan dynotest there is a loss of 12% for hp & 14% for torque (Nm)
So the figures are :

1. Neo CPS - 110hp , 129Nm

2. Civic SIR (EG6) - 149.6hp, 134.1Nm (B16A DOHC VTEC)

3. Civic Vti (EG4) - 114hp, 118Nm (D15B SOHC VTEC)


So in comparison we can see that the torque difference between a B16a & CPS is not that great around 5-6 Nm difference, but hp of the CPS falls way short of the B16A & even less than the D15B.

In theory, From these figures I would say in a 3 way drag from a standstill, the CPS can start as equals to the B16A to around 4500rpm but the CPS will fall back at high RPM's & the D15B will eventually catch up to the CPS due to the higher powerband of the D15B.

IMO, the CPS has potential, but in stock form its hp rating isn't that impressive as its even lower than a SOHC VTEC engine. The torque might be on par to the B16A but thats bcoz their both 1.6 L & but the D15B is a 1.5L engine. A normal 1.6 DOHC engine could get the figures of the CPS engine (lets say a 4G92)

With the use of valve timing mechanism the horsepower rating of the CPS should be around the 140-150hp area to really show off its technology...mind u the comparisons are to a 16 year old Civic!.....

Maybe it was too costly for proton to achieve reliability with the CPS to achieve higher horsepower ratings....so its really up to the tuners to R&D the CPS so it can be a real contender to VTEC (a least for B16a, its still a long2 journey to K20a territory)

Just some points to ponder

I think there is*some confusion between CPS and Campro...conceptually, I think CPS and VTEC are the same, however, if we start to compare Campro and say B16A then it starts to make more sense because then we will be talking about cam profiles, cam phasing, EMS/ECU settings, tolerances, etc. that really shapes up the engine characteristics...

 

[GSR06]

I think there is*some confusion between CPS and Campro...conceptually, I think CPS and VTEC are the same, however, if we start to compare Campro and say B16A then it starts to make more sense because then we will be talking about cam profiles, cam phasing, EMS/ECU settings, tolerances, etc. that really shapes up the engine characteristics...

In terms of power band, I thought even the standard B16A can tapau the Mivec with rojak 1.8L piston? Anybody can share the experience, let's say 0~400m?

 

[aalto]

Boyzone
- I stated it was an on paper comparison (engine to engine) and I stated "in theory" maybe I needed to add same weight,same ratio...ok?, FYI B16a were produced till year 2000, and if its about Euro 4 emissions standards then you'd have to compare CPS to K20 engines. All I'm saying is that the CPS engine is nowhere near the 100hp/L standard for stock performance NA engine & it needs improvements in stock form. Maybe a better comparison would be with the swift sport, 1.6 VVT - 125hp, 148 Nm...:wavey:

Estear - why does it make more sense to compare B16a with campro?....i dont understand...

 

[estear]

Boyzone

Estear - why does it make more sense to compare B16a with campro?....i dont understand...

My point is, CPS & VTEC does basically the same thing. What's different is the engines they are installed to. If Campro would've been installed with a VTEC mechanism instead of CPS, I can't imagine the performance would vary much, likewise if B16A be installed with CPS instead of VTEC. So IMHO, the comparisons are really about the engines, not the cam switching technology...

 

[boyzone]

Boyzone
- I stated it was an on paper comparison (engine to engine) and I stated "in theory" maybe I needed to add same weight,same ratio...ok?, FYI B16a were produced till year 2000, and if its about Euro 4 emissions standards then you'd have to compare CPS to K20 engines. All I'm saying is that the CPS engine is nowhere near the 100hp/L standard for stock performance NA engine & it needs improvements in stock form. Maybe a better comparison would be with the swift sport, 1.6 VVT - 125hp, 148 Nm...:wavey:

Estear - why does it make more sense to compare B16a with campro?....i dont understand...

This could be one of the business plan,
u see:

1gen : Campro
facelift : CPS with 125ps
facelife again : CPS with 140ps
special edition : CPS with 160ps
etc ...

 

[aalto]

This could be one of the business plan,
u see:

1gen : Campro
facelift : CPS with 125ps
facelife again : CPS with 140ps
special edition : CPS with 160ps
etc ...

I hope your right about the business plan....I would really like to see a stock Proton engine make 100hp/L ...

Remember long ago..., petronas developed the EO1 engine? 2.0 VVT 200+ Hp (if i'm not mistaken)....I always wondered why proton doesn't want to use it....

 

[BLANk]

I hope your right about the business plan....I would really like to see a stock Proton engine make 100hp/L ...

Remember long ago..., petronas developed the EO1 engine? 2.0 VVT 200+ Hp (if i'm not mistaken)....I always wondered why proton doesn't want to use it....

regarding the petronas E01 engine...actually,its a toyota 2ZZ-GE engine...

 

[dizazter_rs]

i newly owned neo cps..but now already do RD for it.Mivec injector,works fuel regulator+cam pulley, re-grind cam at mat speed,NS perfomance LSD,racing clutch(5p),walbro fuelpump,racing plug+cable, custom exzos system n haltech e6k..bhp?still dont know yet..car still in progress..i tell u guys later ok :)