Mclaren Considers Buying Over BMW F1 Engine Division To End Mercedes Partnership?

i thought the coming engine deal only give teams a standard, same specced engine with engineers only tweak here n there.

i bet the Brawns will never get to the top again next season. they started the current one with wins from a dubious design at the back which later ruled ok by the authority. but then at that time, they were few wins ahead of the others.

now we are closing to the end of the season, neither jensen or rubens rake in wins. points yes, but the speed they showed in the earlier part of the season seemed gone. yes they are getting points on the board but not in splashing mode as before.

drM, not sure what you mean in your first paragraph. Don't really see the relevance to the story. The regs allow teams to source engines from engine builders or build themselves but within strict technical specifications. Or they can used the standardized Cosworth engines but with additional technical freedom.

The Brawns pace early in the season is not attributed solely to the double deck diffuser. The whole aero package of the car, front to back was clever. They are not on the pace now because the larger teams have overtaken in terms of in-season development thanks to their large resources. It was to be expected. Brawn isn't as well funded as the front runners.

However, as is normal in F1, the Brawn 2010 car should be well advanced in development at this moemnt. They had a head start for 2009 and logically would have a head start for 2010. You can bet a lot of their resource are focused on that now and they are unlikely to try and win the remaining races but instead just keep the pace and collect points, hopefully enough for Jenson to win.

The other reason not to bet against Brawn is that Mercedes is buying into the team, potentially becoming a serious team against the front runners, in terms of resource.

McLaren + BMW, well they did create the F1 road car. It would be interesting to see BMW engine know-how + McLaren chassis and aerodynamic expertise against Ross Brawn brains + Mercedes engine grunt.

And yes what drM is going on about is about Cosworth's standardized engines. Next season teams will still be able to run on their own engine unless they opt for the Cosworth engine. However what drM is mistaken is engine development freeze regulations, means that teams will have to finalise their engine specs before the season starts and keep with the engine specifications. No modifications done beyond that for the rest of the season.

Brawn steamed ahead early in season was due to the double deck diffuser controversey which other teams thought was breaching regulations until the FIA ruled them legal. Then all the other bigger teams started catching on.

I'm cheering Vettel and Jenson, just as long as snobby Hamilton doesn't. Haha.

i thought that deal on standardized engine meant no more during season changes and all teams are to use the same engine for the entire season. so mr hause corrected me where i was short on that engine matters. teams still can source their own engine i suppose? but within the regulation set by FIA?

based on A1Diablo said, it must be team Brawn is the only one doesnt do any development on their running 2009 car, which is absurd to be honest. an experienced team principal like Ross Brawn would have done something to the car as the season goes on. i thought they got the car straight out of Honda and tweak here n there. so if its a clever design and 2008 Mr Button was driving for Honda, how come Honda didnt win as big as the Brawns? that dubious back end did it for them i am pretty sure. there was a huge roar about that thing and aerodynamically that thing worked wonder.

there is a hush hush about our F1 team getting Ruben on board. hes on the cheap and hes not on anyones list, including the Brawns. any truth on it?

drM,

All F1 teams introduce development upgrades to their cars throughout a season. Small ones on a continual basis to optimize track characteristics (every track venue is different) and large technical upgrades, about 3 times in the season, where major fundamental upgrades are made to to hopefully stay ahead of the competition. This applies to Brawn too. All teams know, even before the season starts which races these upgrades will be introduced and usually all teams pick the same race to do it for best performance optimization.

With regards to Brawn specfifically, the reason why they were so quick at the beginning of the season was because they albeit as Honda started designing their 2009 car earlier (since Feb 2008) than everyone else. The reason for this was because they knew their 2008 race car (designed in 2007) was SHIT. Rather than spending costly resources fixing the 2008 car in season, the chose to 'give up' on the car and start early development of the 2009 car (in early 2008). Meanwhile Mclaren and Ferrari were busy trying to win the championship , spending a lot of resource on it and neglecting development of the new 2009 car. Hence both showed poor performance at the start of 2009. McLaren had serious rear downforce issues.

In case you're not familiar with how R&D works in F1.. while you watch F1 teams start racing next season in March 2010, a 'second' R&D team back in the factories are discussing design briefs for their 2011 car. Two things are usually happening concurrently in an F1 team. Racing the current car and building the next season car (provided FIA rules for the following season already confirmed).

In the case of Brawn GP's early pace, it was not down solely to the double deck diffuser though it did play some part. An F1 car is all about 'packaging'. You can't just slap on a double deck diffuser to a team not using it and expect it to go quick. It doesn't work that way. As I mentioned. It was observed early in the season, the Brawn car had very clever bits all around especially the front. The reason for its spectacular pace was it's entire aero package which included it's rear diffuser.

Barrichello seriously damaged his rear diffuser (he was rear ended)at Melbourne and his car was still very quick in the race.

When season 2009 started, Brawn GP had lost the immense R&D resources of Honda which had an affect on 'in-season' car development. They also laid off workers and halved the staff size at their Brackley factory. Fortunately the fruits of the Honda backed R&D were there to be enjoyed at the beginning but they knew they were on their own from 2/3 of the season onwards. If you read the press jenson was quick to downplay his car's performance for the latter part of the season and he actually said the big boys will sure catch up mid season.

Because of Brawn limited resources compared to Ferrari and McLaren they have to manage their resources more carfully and so it is likely they are focusing on the 2010 car and less on the development for the final 1/3 of the current season. They will not try to win the next remaining races but just enough technical development to collect points and hope that its enough for jenson to win the WDC.

Hope that sheds some light.

i know about the development thing going on as the season progresses, and teams got their cars upgraded by pieces here and there. but i dont know about the limited Brawns resources. I thought they were backed by that Bronson, bottomless pocket enterprenuer. it must be right they are pretty short on this because theres simply less sponsors on the car compared to the others. as they keep winning, then they got more money poured in.

so that package was a Honda in all, is it? the Brawns just do something on the front wing as well as that controversy back end diffusers.

thank you A1Diablo.

BrawnGP does not enjoy Branson's 'bottomless pocket' in the manner which you implied. The reason being Branson chose to involve himself just as a sponsor to the team which helps but only so much. Branson is in fact going to support Manor GP in a significant way for 2010. Manor GP is one of the new teams next year.

However BrawnGP's future is looking bright because Mercedes is supporting them next year onwards, buying into the team. And it does look like both McLaren and Mercedes want out of their long standing relationship.

Yes, the BrawnGP car this year, at least in the beginning of the season, was the design result of HondaF1, with massive resource backing by Honda. However the powertrain and some bits at the rear had to be changed very late last year by Ross Brawn and co because of the switch to Mercedes engines. An F1 engine is part of the chassis and does influence the aero around it so clever thinking was called to adapt the changes. Both Ron Dennis and Norbert Haug helped what they can in order to save Brawn and get them on the grid.

The Honda F1 and Brawn GP racing team are essentially one and the same. Same people, based in Brackley though they have downsized significantly since and have lost funding support from Honda Japan.